Not in the ham bands, thanks to notching by HomePlug devices. No Access BPL in our area.
Ghery S. Pettit From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Grasso, Charles Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 9:04 AM To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: RE: [PSES] CE Standard for Power Lines data Transmission System Question to Ham operators out there: Have you noticed an issue with PLC (home devices)? ________________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dennis Ward [[email protected]] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 8:43 AM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: RE: [PSES] CE Standard for Power Lines data Transmission System Ahh but just give it time and BPL/PLC will do the same thing - become very inexpensively made transmitters, the manufacturers of which think they have as much right to the spectrum as a licensed device. And let's not forget the real issue here. Licensed devices have 'promised protection' by regulators while unlicensed devices have no promise of protection only the caution that if they cause interference, they are to stop transmitting or potentially suffer fines up to the individual use of a single device (like that would ever happen how - too bad). Of course now days, what with the lack of concern etc in spectrum use, it will sooner or later jump back to the days of spark gap transmitters - if anyone gets the drift. What concerns me is the seeming lack of enforcement from the FCC in all this. Thinking people and or manufacturers will 'play fair' is a naïve position. Dennis Ward Director of Engineering American TCB Certification Resource for the Wireless Industry www.atcb.com<http://www.atcb.com/> 703-847-4700 fax 703-847-6888 direct - 703-880-4841 From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cortland Richmond Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 4:57 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [PSES] CE Standard for Power Lines data Transmission System Ham operators were prominent in the fight because we are competent enough to make reasoned valid arguments (many of us, anyhow) and among those first to be harmed. We have reason. We are, let us say, "disproportionately represented" in the EMC professions, too. A regulatory scheme has taken root over the last decades that is reactive, not proactive, and insists no regulatory issue exists unless and until someone is harmed by a violation. This has made things considerably easier on manufacturers who fall under PArt 15, for example, but has made it more difficult to change things once the harm has become evident. I won't call 1989 the "good old days" but at that time we had to have the FCC test a computer and if it passed, it by golly PASSED. Now, manufacturers self-certify, and if assembling from parts that achieved self certification, often slap a label on as "assembled with" without concern for actual results. This isn't BPL/PLC, but an example nevertheless. I will refrain for the sake of the forum from going into the politics! But I'm willing to say "been there done that!" and defend it, too. Cortland Richmond KA5S Wang Labs (FCC/EU standards, TEMPEST) DEC (contract TEMPEST) Tandy Computers (FCC. EU) AST Research (FCC, EU) DSC Communications/Alcatel USA (GR-1089) Medtronic Physio-Control (contract) (IEC 610000-4) Smiths Aerospace/GE AViation (MIL STD 461, DO-160 etc,) From: Mark Gandler<mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected]<mailto:olaney@juno. om>;[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: 5/19/2010 3:11:05 PM Subject: RE: [PSES] CE Standard for Power Lines data Transmission System wow, someone is HAMgry. Apology (when became available) would be accepted. Lesson learned: "don't touch the man's ham". As I mentioned before, as long as I can use your services in case of emergency, I will be "ham's the word" or is it hum or mum, can't quite remember. I hope the emc-pstc people will cut this discussion short, I am getting "num". ________________________________ To: [email protected] CC: [email protected] List-Post: [email protected] List-Post: [email protected] List-Post: [email protected] Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 07:45:37 -0700 Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Standard for Power Lines data Transmission System From: [email protected] Yes, it was a bit sharp. On Wed, 19 May 2010 07:31:58 -0600 "Grasso, Charles" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> writes: Hold on Orin. Your last statement "Now shut up about the hams" is out of line. This forum is (or supposed to be) a friendly exchange of ideas. Best Regards Charles Grasso ________________________________ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of o. laney Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 8:19 PM To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Standard for Power Lines data Transmission System Why do you assert that government users are not concerned? They are very concerned, do studies, publish papers, and hold conferences. However, public safety and defense concerns are not usually for public consumption. My government contacts who conduct field studies tell me that even NATO is concerned, the problem being that the aggregate transmitting power on miles of radiating lines is enough to be detectable after ionospheric bounce. We're talking very large distances. By any measure, BPL/PLC in the HF band is dung. BPL was conceived by businessmen who don't know coax from garden hose, implemented politically on the business side and by engineers they pay but don't listen to on the technical side. Among other critical services in the HF band there are long distance aircraft and maritime communications, research telemetry, and all sorts of other things that depend on reliable reception of weak signals. These are scattered all through the HF band, and notching the hams is politically expedient but no protection for these other users. Believe me, the FCC is in the loop on this, but Michael Powell rammed approval down the throats of staff. He's a lawyer, and science be damned. Now shut up about the hams. They have sound science behind them and the technical problems cannot be finessed away. You do understand, I hope, that notching means in-band energy reduction, but not elimination. It helps but is not a panacea by any stretch of the imagination. And yes, the hams are well regarded for their ability to provide emergency communications. The amateur service is predicated on such capability along with advancement of the technical art, and not simply as an indulgence for hobbyists. Orin Laney On Tue, 18 May 2010 15:59:43 -0500 Mark Gandler <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> writes: Unfortunately, hams complaining about anything and everything related to BPL, even small home Ethernet adapters, which are notched, signals are lower power and they get significantly reduced power beyond any circuit breaker. And those products are easier targets, as there are more of them around, they are on store shelves and fall under EMC Directive. and why are the majority of the complaints come from UK? BPL has much higher sales in Germany and France. As well we are not getting any complaints from any government operations. If hams will be the only ones with communication devices left during the disaster, please make sure to post your addresses, so we can all flock to it, I am not joking. ________________________________ From: [email protected] To: [email protected]; - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> David Heald <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> ________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Learn more.<http://www.windowslive.com/ ampaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> David Heald <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> David Heald <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> David Heald <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <[email protected]> David Heald: <[email protected]> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <[email protected]> David Heald: <[email protected]>
