It bothers me that Boeing was not able to reproduce any reported EMI incident, so you EMC experts will have to tell me if this concern is justified.
In a previous era, I did avionics in the military. Pilot and/or RSO griped that the recon radar was interfering with radio altimeter - form returned with 'A799'. Another day, another aircraft - aircrew griped that nav radar interfering with radio altimeter - still not able to repro. Several iterations and about a year later, was playing with the nav radar while waiting on other systems - observed an intermittent clack under the foot panel - identified as the power relay to the radio altimeter. Root cause - when a unique combo of systems were sequenced, and when some connectors had some degree of corrosion, and when a wave guide tee was not clamped, and when the cable to the weight on wheels switch was not routed correctly, 'enough' noise caused a discrete bipolar transistor to remove power to the radio altimeter power relay. Based on these anecdotal incidents, it is possible that Boeing had not, in fact, reproduced the operational/maintenance conditions that caused the EMI incident. Brian > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf > Of Doug Nix > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 11:53 AM > To: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen > Cc: Ted Eckert; [email protected] > Subject: Re: Article on "portable electronics" aboard airplanes > > > Gert, > > I found your link broken, but here is one that works: > http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_10/interfere.html > You can go to an HTML or Text only page, or you can > download a pdf. > If anyone wants the pdf, just drop me a note and I will > email it to you. > > -- > Doug Nix, A.Sc.T. > IEEE PSES Toronto Chapter > Toronto Section, Ontario, Canada > > [email protected] > mobile (519) 729-5704 > fax (519) 653-1318 > > On 24-Sep-09, at 2:20 PM, ce-test, qualified testing bv - > Gert Gremmen > wrote: > > > I would recommend all that are interested in this to read > the Boeing > > article. > > > http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_10/interfe > re_textonly > > .html > > > > Conclusion: no interference from PED has ever been proven. > > (but for a guy in 1964 operating a FM transmitter air-borne) > > > > Gert Gremmen > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Namens Ted Eckert > > Verzonden: donderdag 24 september 2009 17:27 > > Aan: [email protected] > > Onderwerp: RE: Article on "portable electronics" aboard airplanes > > > > I don't know of the K:M test. This is the research of which I am > > aware. > > http://www.cmu.edu/PR/releases06/060228_cellphone.html > > > http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_10/interfe > re_textonly > > .html > > > http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/aviation/unsafe-at-any > -airspeed > > http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAPAP2003_03.PDF > > > > There is clearly an increased risk, but there is little > conclusive > > data > > on the magnitude of that risk. The Boeing document summarizes it > > succinctly. "The potential is great that PEDs [personal electronic > > devices] will continue to be blamed for some anomalies > regardless of > > whether they are the true cause. As a result, regulatory > agencies and > > operators continue to offer the current policy for PED use on > > airplanes > > as the best safety measure." > > > > Ted Eckert > > Compliance Engineer > > Microsoft Corporation > > [email protected] > > > > The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily > reflect those > > of my employer. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gartman, Richard [mailto:[email protected]] > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:33 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: Article on "portable electronics" aboard airplanes > > > > The best reason I have heard from a flight attendant (this > happened > > only > > once) for putting the computer away was " do you want a 5 pound > > projectile flying around the cabin if there is an incident". You > > cannot > > argue with that logic. > > > > Does any on have the report of the KLM/FCC cell phone test > that was > > done > > in Phoenix several years back. As I hear the story, a KLM "Boeing" > > aircraft was filled with cell phones (one in each seat) > and they all > > went active at the same time. The intent was to see if a > plane loaded > > with cell phones could cause interruption to the aircrafts > > electronics. > > > > I am sure this group would enjoy that report. > > > > Have a great day > > W. Richard Gartman, MS, CSP > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ken > > Javor > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:18 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: Article on "portable electronics" aboard airplanes > > > > While having stuff put away during take-off and landing > makes sense, > > just as > > you say, protection of aircraft radio and navigation > receivers is the > > primary driver. Paralleling control of rfi on the ground, > the first > > such > > rfi control only applied to radios, because of local > oscillators, and > > then > > later applied to digital electronics, because the clocks and their > > harmonics > > could radiate just like the radio's LO could. > > > > Ken Javor > > > > Phone: (256) 650-5261 > > > > > >> From: Nick Williams <[email protected]> > >> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:02:55 +0100 > >> To: Ken Wyatt <[email protected]> > >> Cc: <[email protected]> > >> Subject: Re: Article on "portable electronics" aboard airplanes > >> > >> I've always understood that, certainly so far as > commercial airliners > >> are concerned, EMC was never really the issue. Far more > to the point > >> is the fact that take off and landing are statistically the most > >> likely time for there to be an emergency which requires the > >> passengers to be paying attention to what the cabin > attendants have > >> to say rather than listening to or fiddling with their personal > >> possessions. > >> > >> It also can't do any harm for the cabin not to be > cluttered up with > >> laptops and other junk for people to trip over if you need to get > >> everyone off in a hurry. > >> > >> Nick. > >> > >> > >> > >> At 22:26 -0600 23/9/09, Ken Wyatt wrote: > >>> I thought I'd post this link to a semi-rant by one of the Gizmodo > >>> editors on the use of electronics aboard aircraft. He > brings up some > >>> good points regarding the EMI properties of various gadgets. It's > >>> also interesting how he and other non-EMCers think on the whole > >>> subject. > >>> > >>> Has anyone on this list studied the emissions > characteristics ("on" > >>> versus sleep mode) for various portable electronic products? > >>> > >>> I'd love to not be hassled when using my Bose headphones. > >>> > >>> > > > http://gizmodo.com/5366128/giz-explains-how-to-fix-the-airlin > es-stupid-p > > ortab > >>> le-gadget-rules > >>> > >>> Regards, Ken > >>> ---------------------------------------------- > >>> Wyatt Technical Services, LLC > >>> 56 Aspen Dr. > >>> Woodland Park, CO 80863 > >>> > >> > >> - > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society > > emc-pstc > >> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your > e-mail to > >> <[email protected]> > >> > >> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > >> http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc > >> Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be > posted to > > that URL. > >> > >> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > >> Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html > >> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > >> > >> For help, send mail to the list administrators: > >> Scott Douglas <[email protected]> > >> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> > >> > >> For policy questions, send mail to: > >> Jim Bacher: <[email protected]> > >> David Heald: <[email protected]> > > > > - > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society > > emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your > > e-mail to <[email protected]> > > > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc > > Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be > posted to > > that > > URL. > > > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > > Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html > > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > > Scott Douglas <[email protected]> > > Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> > > > > For policy questions, send mail to: > > Jim Bacher: <[email protected]> > > David Heald: <[email protected]> > > > > - > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society > > emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your > > e-mail to <[email protected]> > > > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc > > Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be > posted to > > that > > URL. > > > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > > Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html > > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > > Scott Douglas <[email protected]> > > Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> > > > > For policy questions, send mail to: > > Jim Bacher: <[email protected]> > > David Heald: <[email protected]> > > > > - > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society > > emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your > > e-mail to <[email protected]> > > > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc > > Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be > posted to > > that > > URL. > > > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > > Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html > > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > > Scott Douglas <[email protected]> > > Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> > > > > For policy questions, send mail to: > > Jim Bacher: <[email protected]> > > David Heald: <[email protected]> > > > > - > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering > Society emc- > > pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e- > > mail to <[email protected]> > > > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc > > Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be > posted to > > that URL. > > > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > > Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html > > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > > Scott Douglas <[email protected]> > > Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> > > > > For policy questions, send mail to: > > Jim Bacher: <[email protected]> > > David Heald: <[email protected]> > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering > Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the > list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc > Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be > posted to that URL. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <[email protected]> > Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: <[email protected]> > David Heald: <[email protected]> > > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <[email protected]> David Heald: <[email protected]>
