Nice explanation Pete!
Scott, et al - great questions! These and many other basic questions get answered at the Symposium in the Compliance 101 Track. Be sure to keep an eye out for announcements. For those who have knowledge to share, the call for papers for the 2017 Symposium is already out - http://ewh.ieee.org/soc/pses/symposium/index.html. Be Safe! John ________________________________ From: Pete Perkins <00000061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 12:47 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Safety requirements in US Scott, As a newcomer, you are quite perceptive at asking food questions. There has been some discussion of how the responsibilities are divided between jurisdictions in the US but there is one common thread in all of this. The US NEC (National Electric Code) has always provided guidance in this. The wording and explanation have changed with time but the intent seems the same. The NEC applies to Utilization Equipment: Equipment that utilizes electrical energy for electronic, electromechanical, chemical., heating, lighting or similar purposes. And Approved: Acceptable to the AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction). And Labeled: Equipment or materials to which has been attached a label, symbol, or other identifying mark of an organization that is acceptable to the AHJ and concerned with product evaluation, that maintains periodic inspection of production of labeled equipment or materials, aby by whose labeling the manufacturer indicated compliance with appropriate standards or performance in a specified manner. Organization acceptable to the AHJ has come to mean NRTL certifying laboratory. The NRTL lab certification program is organized by OSHA but applies more broadly than the OSHA requirements themselves. There are more than a handful off NRTL approved labs (all qualified for specific types of equipment); you can see the list on the OSHA website along with the details as to their product class certifications. In the US, UL is the 800 lb gorilla in this business but there is vigorous competition. All of these NRTL labs, I believe, work with manufacturers on a worldwide basis; their certification label shown proof of compliance with the NEC. The US safety requirements for products are from ANSI standards. For the products that I most commonly work with UL is important in developing the standards and closely works with the US committees as well as the corresponding IEC committee, too, as the US is working to harmonize technical safety requirements on a worldwide basis for many product groups (e.g. ITE 62368, Test/Measurement/Process Control 61010, etc.). So, I think that your basic understanding is correct. The products have to be certified to a US standard by a NRTL cert lab which does an examination/testing of a sample product and, upon successful completion of the evaluation, issues a certification (Listing in many cases) then does ongoing factory inspections on a regular basis to ensure that the labeled product continues to be manufactured in the same way as the product evaluated. I hope that this long-winded explanation is helpful to you. :>) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 p.perk...@ieee.org<mailto:p.perk...@ieee.org> From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 9:52 AM To: Pete Perkins <peperkin...@cs.com>; 'Scott Xe' <scott...@gmail.com>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Safety requirements in US Hi Peter, Yes, I have got that feeling. It is difficult to ask a manufacturer designing a product meeting US requirements. It sounds no certain places to provide such information. What is the exact meaning of NRTL certification? Is NRTL accredited laboratory in the US? What can they certify a sample or production? Understand UL listed certifies both sample and production. Sorry for my silly questions as you know I am just a new comer in this area. From: Pete Perkins <peperkin...@cs.com<mailto:peperkin...@cs.com>> Date: Monday, 25 July 2016 at 11:55 PM To: Raymond Li <scott...@gmail.com<mailto:scott...@gmail.com>>, <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>> Subject: RE: [PSES] Safety requirements in US Scott, There has been quite a bit of discussion here on US requirements. As you can tell there is no ‘overall’ single US requirement that covers everything. The final say is locally for most instances; the local AHJ inspectors have local control. Local inspectors have access to all construction – both new construction and substantial remodeling – and must approve the final construction, including the electrical installation. They can refuse to accept any unit for attachment to the grid power based upon their local laws, rules and understanding, s we have commented previously. There are more than 10k jurisdictions in the USA. This is confusing to outsiders who are looking for a simple solution such as the EU has developed. Since you have asked; the best response of manufacturers is to provide NRTL certification for their product when it is sold in the USA. This is additional effort and, possibly, additional cost since there is a finite list of NRTL labs. Since most NRTLs will also issue a CB Report where the requirements are harmonized, I have advised manufacturers to obtain both evaluations and reports at the same time for a savings in effort and cost. :>) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 p.perk...@ieee.org<mailto:p.perk...@ieee.org> From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2016 10:31 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Safety requirements in US Thanks for all your responses! What is the best practice for the suppliers/importers to demonstrate the compliance with relevant requirements? Scott From: Ron Wellman <rwell...@wellman.com<mailto:rwell...@wellman.com>> Reply-To: Ron Wellman <rwell...@wellman.com<mailto:rwell...@wellman.com>> Date: Sunday, 24 July 2016 at 12:14 AM To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>> Subject: Re: [PSES] Safety requirements in US United States laws are codified in the United States Code (USC). The Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) is the implementation of the laws in the USC. Ron From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2016 7:38 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Safety requirements in US Actually, I think FDA, FCC, FTA, USDA, CDC, Homeland Security, etc. all report up to the CFR. Doug From: Nyffenegger, Dave Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2016 8:32 AM To: Doug Powell; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: RE: [PSES] Safety requirements in US Anything with a laser in it is also governed by FDA regs. I think the objective is to make it so confusing that no-one can figure it out completely and the lawyers will always have something to do. -Dave From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2016 10:08 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] Safety requirements in US Ultimately, everything goes up to the Code of Federal Regulations, CFR. These are the law of the land. You can find the regulations that both OSHA and CPSC follow there. In turn, each state has their own set of laws, for example in my home state are the Colorado Revised Statutes, CRS. Usually all these can be found online at no charge. All the best, Doug From: Kevin Robinson Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2016 2:47 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Reply To: Kevin Robinson Subject: Re: [PSES] Safety requirements in US Scott, In the US, the regulations rounds on the type of product and where it will be used. For example: If the product will be used in the workplace then Osha NRTL regs apply. If the product will be used in the home or around schools, then CPSC regs apply. If the product is a medical device then FDA regs apply Most products fall under multiple regulators as for example, a hospital is both a medical space as well as a workplace. Thankfully, most us regulations reference voluntary consensus standards so one round of testing will often satisfy all safety regulators. Kevin Robinson Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> _____________________________ From: Scott Xe <scott...@gmail.com<mailto:scott...@gmail.com>> Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2016 1:30 AM Subject: [PSES] Safety requirements in US To: <emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org<mailto:emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org>> Within EU, most of electrical products are covered by LVD and GPSD. In US, which body, law and standards are responsible for the similar regulatory? - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
