PPS: the Chinese general to whom I referred was Sun Zu – “google” that if you want to find out more.
From: john Allen [mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: 14 November 2016 22:20 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Paper Manuals? PS: that the quoted “know thine enemy” phrase was a paraphrase of the (reputed, but very historical ) statement from the Chinese General from his book/manuscript that “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” Different context, but essentially the same as my post about how to deal with the situation outlined in the OP’s original post, John E Allen W.London, UK From: john Allen [mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: 14 November 2016 22:00 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Paper Manuals? TBH, this subject will run and run – until, “some day”, “someone in authority” “some where” will make a “definitive” statement about what is, and is not, “acceptable” for each and every type of equipment, but I don’t see that happening anytime soon! Therefore, unless and until that happens, then every case has to be judged on its own “merits” – and that will very much depend on what the equipment is, where it is used, and by whom it will be operated – and the people who have jurisdiction over those people who will use the equipment, and that has to be a local “risk assessment” issue. And so, “you” - the equipment supplier - have to try to understand all those circumstances before “you” can decide what you do as the equipment supplier because, generally, “you” also supply the instructions, and in what form. In other much quoted and often misused words “know thine enemy” L/J PS: the above is based on “quite a long time” dealing with the supply of “safety instructions” for commercial and defense oriented electrical, oil & gas (and other!) equipment for a whole variety of kit for various markets around “the World”. You want some assistance? – be happy to try to help if you do. John E Allen (“Compliance with Experience Ltd”) W.London, UK From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] Sent: 14 November 2016 21:18 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Paper Manuals? Hi Jamison: Supposedly, only the safety instructions that are specified in the standard can be arbitrarily subject to “printed” versus “electronic” where the standard does not so specify. Many products today are “stand-alone” safe, where the safety is not dependent on installation or operation. (The computer you are using to read this e-mail is likely “stand-alone” safe.) In this case, no safety instructions are necessary. (The products I was associated with were of this construction; we had no requirements imposed upon us for manuals.) For permanently-wired equipment, a safety instruction label on the equipment should suffice. Where safe operation of the equipment is operator-dependent, a safety instruction label should suffice and will be better than an instruction manual, whether printed or electronic. Good luck, Rich From: Kortas, Jamison [mailto:jamison.kor...@ecolab.com] Sent: Monday, November 14, 2016 9:05 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Paper Manuals? Good Morning, Has anyone had any success in getting standards writers and/or evaluation organizations to accept an electronic version of a manual as an equivalent alternative to a paper version even when the standard refers to a paper manual? I am getting mixed signals from various individuals within organizations and wanted to pool ask the group for any insight. I would think, particularly for equipment that is installed by trained professionals and not lay people, there might be an appetite for this sort of change. Thanks, Jamison - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
