Re: [PSES] Safety design of shutter opening

[Pete Perkins]

Scott,

 

                In watching this thread it is clear that the technical 
assessment and the regulatory certification are two separate issues but linked 
by local law so we need to be cognizant of the regulatory environment.  

 

                The technical assessment (per the standard) is organized by an 
ongoing group of (fallible) folks who work very hard to cover all of the risks 
(usually) from the product manufacturers point of view (since they seem to 
dominate the technical committees).  Since the requirements are usually written 
in retrospect from experience and, usually, not organized in a top down 
approach (using the usual risk assessment tools – FMEA, etc) it is incomplete 
is some (usually) unexpected ways – as you have discovered.  When exposed, the 
standards committee then scrambles to fill the hole identified.  This is a 
never ending process, approaching perfection asymptotically.  

All this ignores the clever manufacturer who seeks out these holes and makes 
use of them to gain advantage in some way. 

 

                The regulatory certification reflects the level of development 
of the National bureaucracy responsible for setting requirements.  
Additionally, the lobbying of legislators and bureaucrats by special interest 
groups affects the final rules applied.  So it ends up being a patchwork of 
requirements that need to be applied by the manufacturer.  

John Woodgate assures us that the world is happy with the UK approvals; check 
it out carefully.  Oh yes, a question – does Hong Kong or Singapore still use 
the British plug design?  What residual of this usage is still left in the 
world?   

 

                All of this is the reason that you and I (and most of the 
others on this net) have a meaningful job – once we get a little experience and 
are willing to put up with the uncertainty regarding the roles of requirements 
along with the varied level of enforcement by the legal jurisdictions.  

 

                You are uncomfortable with this hole in the requirements.  When 
we feel that the requirements or the application of requirements is either too 
strict or too slack our only recourse is to get (directly or indirectly) 
involved in fixing things (in which managers and technical folks excel) by 
joining a technical committee or lobbying the political process that needs 
fixing.  

 

                My advice is: pick your fights carefully and pursue them with 
all you have – personal and corporate.  You may even be successful in some of 
the efforts.  

 

                So much philosophizing; good luck in fixing the world.  

 

:>)     br,      Pete

 

Peter E Perkins, PE

Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant

PO Box 23427

Tigard, ORe  97281-3427

 

503/452-1201

 

IEEE Life Fellow

 <mailto:p.perk...@ieee.org> p.perk...@ieee.org

 

From: Scott Xe <scott...@gmail.com> 
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2018 9:48 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Safety design of shutter opening

 

Dear Johns,

 

Thanks for advice abt other countries using 13A plugs & sockets!  Do they 
require specific approved bodies for issuing certification like UK?

 

Regards,

 

Scott

 

From: John Allen <000009cc677f395b-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org 
<mailto:000009cc677f395b-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> >
Reply-To: John Allen <john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk 
<mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk> >
Date: Monday, 16 July 2018 at 3:45 PM
To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> >
Subject: Re: [PSES] Safety design of shutter opening

 

Also used in Malta and Cyprus (even in “Turkish” Northern Cyprus IIRC!) – and 
then there is Gibraltar.

 

John E Allen

W. London, UK

 

From: John Mcauley [mailto:john.mcau...@cei.ie] 
Sent: 16 July 2018 01:03
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> 
Subject: Re: [PSES] Safety design of shutter opening

 

Hi Scott

 

Ireland uses the same plug as the UK as per I.S. 401:1997 - Safety Requirements 
For Rewireable And Non-rewireable 13A Fused Plugs.

 

IS 401 is the equivalent of BS 1363.

 

Interesting issue about plugs being able to be inserted upside down in some 
extension sockets. 

 

John McAuley 

 

 

From: Scott Xe <scott...@gmail.com <mailto:scott...@gmail.com> > 
Sent: 15 July 2018 23:32
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> 
Subject: Re: [PSES] Safety design of shutter opening

 

Thank you for the clarification. 

 

On Mon, 16 Jul 2018, 12:47 am John Woodgate, <j...@woodjohn.uk 
<mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk> > wrote:

GPS applies to anything; that's why is called 'General...'. Anything can fall 
within more than one Directive, in fact all electrical products fall within 
both LVD and EMCD, as well as GPSD.

BS 136X connectors are used outside the UK; the EU is not relevant to that.

John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk <http://www.woodjohn.uk> 
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-07-15 17:33, Scott Xe wrote:

The product is for UK market only since 13A rectangular pins.  I believe only 
UK uses this type of plug within EU.  As far as I remember, a couple of such 
product reviews raised this concern in the past but I did not know the BS 
standard does not prohibit it.  I am uncomfortable with such design if it meets 
the standard.

 

According to LVD guidance, this type of product falls into LVD, not GPS.  John, 
how does this product relate to GPS?

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Scott

 

From: John Woodgate  <mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk> <j...@woodjohn.uk>
Date: Sunday, 15 July 2018 at 10:53 PM
To: Scott Xe  <mailto:scott...@gmail.com> <scott...@gmail.com>,  
<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] Safety design of shutter opening

 

I believe that no-one thought of the possibility of a design that allowed that 
incorrect insertion. It is known to the responsible BSI committee, but of 
course it takes time for the standard to be amended. Until it is, conformity to 
the existing standard cannot be denied. However, the marketing of such a device 
might violate the GPS Directive in Europe, although that is not certain because 
unshuttered sockets are legal in some EU/EFTA countries. Since it  only affects 
those countries that use the BS136X system,  the appropriate regulatory action 
may be problematical.

John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk <http://www.woodjohn.uk> 
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-07-15 14:52, Scott Xe wrote:

I received a sample of portable extension sockets with a compliance certificate 
of BS 1363-2.  It is noted the slim enclosure design allows the mains plugs to 
be inserted into the sockets up-side-down by mistake.  In such circumstance, 
only the earth pin is inserted and the plug opens the shutter of L and N 
terminals posting the risk to access the L and N terminals with a test pin.  It 
is a foreseeable misuse but seems no breach of the safety standard.  Can 
someone share why it can be tolerated by the standard?

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Scott

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