John, I think you are getting your tests mixed up. The Ohm Meter is a Ground Bond Test but at a very low current. As I said in my earlier email, Annex F doesn't specify a current value for this test so technically an ohm meter will do the job and meet the requirement of the 61010-1.
The HiPot test puts a high voltage potential between Line (or neutral) to chassis ground to test the Dielectric Strength of your insulation. This test is typically performed at 1500Vac and/or 2100Vdc for electrical equipment operating up to the 230-volt range, but I have seen lower voltage levels used also. This is a different test than the Ground Bond test and is also required for 100% of production. I hope this was helpful. The Other Brian On Wed, May 12, 2021 at 2:09 PM John Cochran <[email protected]> wrote: > I’m interested in these answers, but UL and Intertek do not require us to > do more than Ground Continuity testing on 100% of the products. The UL/cUL > certified product is an Industrial LCD Monitor (NWGQ, NWGQ7) evaluated to > the ITE standard IEC 60950-1 & CAN/CSA C22.2 No. 60950-1-07, with a > detachable power cord. The Intertek certified product is a mobile cart > with a permanently attached 3/c cord with plug. It is evaluated to UL > 61010-1 & CSA C22.2#61010-1-12. Both have an input range of 100-240VAC @ > 15A. We use a Hi-Pot tester with a Ground Continuity, Open/Short and > Dielectric tests. Neither NRTL requires more than a buzzer/ohm-meter test > of all exposed metal surfaces, which the Hi-Pot tester does. The responses > to this email challenge these requirements, but if not required, it is hard > to convince management that we need to invest in more test equipment. I > feel more assured of the grounding on a system when we use our 25A Ground > Bond Tester, but we only have one for engineering purposes. We have never > been required to do Ground Bond testing, only Ground Continuity. > > > > *John Cochran* > > *[email protected] <[email protected]>* > > 215-443-3400 x219 > > > > *From:* MIKE SHERMAN <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 12, 2021 11:08 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Ground Bond Tests > > > > Rich Nute has 3 Technically Speaking columns on this that can be found at > the In Compliance magazine website. The first is here > > https://incompliancemag.com/article/derivation-of-ground-impedance/ > > and I find it quite informative. > > Mike Sherman > > Graco Inc. > > > > On 05/12/2021 8:01 AM Wiseman, Joshua < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I agree with Brian. I’ve been involved with product safety over 20 yrs and > worked for an NRTL for about 6 of those. > > > > The 40 A requirement came from the Canadian electrical code and all the > NRTLs. > > > > The only exemptions I’ve seen to the 100 % ground bond requirement has > been for Class II and Class III devices or devices using an external power > supply (brick or wall-wart styles.) > > > > Josh > > > > *From:* Brian Kunde <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 12, 2021 8:42 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Ground Bond Tests > > > > *EXTERNAL SENDER: Verify links, attachments and sender before taking > action* > > > > 61010-1 § 4.1 says, "Tests in this standard are TYPE TESTS to be carried > out on samples of equipment or parts. Their only purpose is to check that > the design and construction ensure conformity with this standard. In > addition, *manufacturers shall perform the ROUTINE TESTS of Annex F on > 100 % of equipment produced* which has both HAZARDOUS LIVE parts and > ACCESSIBLE conductive parts." > > > > 61010-1 Annex F, § F2 calls out the "Protective earth" test, also known as > the Ground Bond Test, as a required test to be performed on 100% of > production. Note the "NOTE" that says, "No value is specified for the test > current.". So some NRTL inspectors allow the ground bond test in > production to be performed at any reasonable current value, but most will > follow the requirements of 6.5.2. > > > > > > I have been doing Product Safety for over 30 years and have worked with > UL, CSA, TUV, NEMKO, EOLAS, etc., and all of them require 100% testing of > production units to both the Highpot test and the Ground Bond test. > > > > Regarding the 100mΩ verses 200mΩ question, all the NRTL inspectors I have > worked with require the measured impedance of the Power Cord to be no more > than 100mΩ. Note the UL/ANSI/CSA Deviation to 6.5.2.4 that instead of the > 100mΩ requirement has a "shall not cause a potential drop of more than 4 > V". At a minimum 40 A ground bond test, a 100mΩ impedance would give you a > 4V drop. It doesn't say anything about an 8V drop for non-detachable power > cords. So NRTLs are going to stick with the 100mΩ across the board, I > believe (this is opinion). > > > > Hope this information is helpful. > > > > The Other Brian > > > > > > On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 11:27 PM Steve Brody <[email protected]> wrote: > > So here is my question, or actually two of them: > > > > First, one of my clients has been told by their 3rd party NRTL that a > ground bond test is required as part of factory/production routine tests, > even though it is not required by 61010-1. I have never run into this > requirement in my work history and I would be interested in hearing if any > of you have. > > > > Second, just to be sure my interpretation is correct, 61010-1, section > 6.5.2.4, Impedance of protective bonding of plug-connected equipment, in > the fist sentence, it has a limit of 100 mOhms impedance and my read is > that this is for equipment with a power cord that has a plug on one end and > a receptacle on the other. > > > > Then, in the same section, still under the title of plug-connected > equipment, it says for equipment that has a non-detachable power cord the > limit is 200 mOhms. My interpretation is that plug-connected equipment > with a non-detachable power cord is when the power cord is hard wired to > the unit under test, but still has a plug for mains connection. > > > > Thoughts? > > > > Thanks in advance and you can reply here or privately to > [email protected] > > > > > > Steve Brody > > [email protected] > > C - 603 617 9116 > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > [email protected]> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Femc-pstc.html&data=04%7C01%7Cjoshua.wiseman%40orthoclinicaldiagnostics.com%7C5cb8d9181834401d3f7008d9154371a1%7C6e63ffc0c2fc4cc4b6c4666b2ce89d92%7C0%7C0%7C637564201689622581%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=HvQW7ZqoO5YZS7CRFVERci8wTOlw06x5rnPosmWGT2I%3D&reserved=0> > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ > <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fproduct-compliance.oc.ieee.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjoshua.wiseman%40orthoclinicaldiagnostics.com%7C5cb8d9181834401d3f7008d9154371a1%7C6e63ffc0c2fc4cc4b6c4666b2ce89d92%7C0%7C0%7C637564201689632540%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=DFlEIGK%2FXubJKcLlm3CjW9O9pz4s3g6%2FBIzQKjVbY64%3D&reserved=0> > can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjoshua.wiseman%40orthoclinicaldiagnostics.com%7C5cb8d9181834401d3f7008d9154371a1%7C6e63ffc0c2fc4cc4b6c4666b2ce89d92%7C0%7C0%7C637564201689632540%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=FOkw7IT9ocKxHdHR5GEp5M10Z%2FwVFclMo2YCM0YaoME%3D&reserved=0> > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flist.html&data=04%7C01%7Cjoshua.wiseman%40orthoclinicaldiagnostics.com%7C5cb8d9181834401d3f7008d9154371a1%7C6e63ffc0c2fc4cc4b6c4666b2ce89d92%7C0%7C0%7C637564201689642497%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=PXH%2FHIsFp6InxFWXx4Q%2FZWmSQIT0I8JTCP7srcPGGPA%3D&reserved=0> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flistrules.html&data=04%7C01%7Cjoshua.wiseman%40orthoclinicaldiagnostics.com%7C5cb8d9181834401d3f7008d9154371a1%7C6e63ffc0c2fc4cc4b6c4666b2ce89d92%7C0%7C0%7C637564201689642497%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=NbeSM5%2BTNQTjlhrl7diWuUlDYex0u0NATVhPOE%2Bhc40%3D&reserved=0> > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <[email protected]> > Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <[email protected]> > David Heald <[email protected]> > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > [email protected]> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Femc-pstc.html&data=04%7C01%7Cjoshua.wiseman%40orthoclinicaldiagnostics.com%7C5cb8d9181834401d3f7008d9154371a1%7C6e63ffc0c2fc4cc4b6c4666b2ce89d92%7C0%7C0%7C637564201689652452%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=e9sc0WamLt00Mphy%2B%2Fs6H1ba%2Bas%2FZ9HHcCIdHYKP4d8%3D&reserved=0> > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ > <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fproduct-compliance.oc.ieee.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjoshua.wiseman%40orthoclinicaldiagnostics.com%7C5cb8d9181834401d3f7008d9154371a1%7C6e63ffc0c2fc4cc4b6c4666b2ce89d92%7C0%7C0%7C637564201689652452%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ATze1ijC%2B9lZbXDIBRi8PuDBkmlo29PxQ9nenxX4FEg%3D&reserved=0> > can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjoshua.wiseman%40orthoclinicaldiagnostics.com%7C5cb8d9181834401d3f7008d9154371a1%7C6e63ffc0c2fc4cc4b6c4666b2ce89d92%7C0%7C0%7C637564201689662410%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=e%2BB%2FjWp%2Bj191nwQ6ICYHNAUX9FTFj5AnEyxv94PSbgo%3D&reserved=0> > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flist.html&data=04%7C01%7Cjoshua.wiseman%40orthoclinicaldiagnostics.com%7C5cb8d9181834401d3f7008d9154371a1%7C6e63ffc0c2fc4cc4b6c4666b2ce89d92%7C0%7C0%7C637564201689662410%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=pOoTqThzM%2FBRTRQUJJ1wM1Lb4z5J291HZMXe8oiWvdE%3D&reserved=0> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-pses.org%2Flistrules.html&data=04%7C01%7Cjoshua.wiseman%40orthoclinicaldiagnostics.com%7C5cb8d9181834401d3f7008d9154371a1%7C6e63ffc0c2fc4cc4b6c4666b2ce89d92%7C0%7C0%7C637564201689662410%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Fr0RoZL%2FNCIqgErKzX1r0nTMfXS8jHpfF6CUvzNO7rM%3D&reserved=0> > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <[email protected]> > Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <[email protected]> > David Heald <[email protected]> > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > [email protected]> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <[email protected]> > Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <[email protected]> > David Heald <[email protected]> > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > [email protected]> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <[email protected]> > Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <[email protected]> > David Heald <[email protected]> > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > [email protected]> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <[email protected]> > Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <[email protected]> > David Heald <[email protected]> > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <[email protected]> David Heald: <[email protected]>
