On 2/4/2015 5:32 AM, Marcus Bowman wrote: > On 8 May 2014, at 00:19, Steve Blackmore wrote: > >> On Wed, 7 May 2014 08:08:34 -0400, you wrote: >> >>> On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 10:35 PM, Stuart Stevenson <stus...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Don't disparage the Chinese machines. >>>> >>> I didn't disparage all Chinese machines, just the smallest lathes. I'm >>> sure there is plenty to disparage about some of the larger machines as >>> well. They could certainly do better, but at the price point they are >>> shipping these things at, they don't bother. Understandable since they >>> still need to make money. Machine tool makers elsewhere would refuse to >>> take your money for such a thing, > Well; actually, no. > >>> but that leaves some of us casting >>> Gingery designs in our backyard. Pick your poison. >> That's not strictly true in the case of mass produced machines for >> export markets - the Chinese make a product to a price defined by the >> customer - by customer I mean the likes of Grizzly, Harbor Freight etc. >> > That's true for all products, no matter where they are made. > Sadly, most lathes and mills are now made in the Far East, and that includes > all or most of the parts for UK and USA brands. The old established 'manual' > brands are now made over there, and the newer CNC machines are made there > too, even if they are branded UK or USA-made. Checkout the international > shipping options for the Tormach CNC lathe, for example. Customers in the UK, > for example, have it shipped direct from the factory --- in Guangdong, China. > That doesn't mean its not a good machine. > >> The basics of a machine may be the same as supplied to many customers >> but the quality can vary hugely from one to another for the "same" item. > Sadly, it is now very difficult indeed to buy a really high spec quality tool > of almost any sort, because, as customers, we have shot ourselves in the > foot. If enough people buy cheap tools made of cheese, the manufacturers of > quality high-spec tools will go out of business (as most of them have). But > its part of an evolutionary process, and a cycle which goes on continually > for all products. > >> Not just paint colour, but finish standards and in some cases materials >> used, depending on how much they are prepared to pay per unit. > I love a good tool, and am prepared to pay a bit more for quality. Sadly, > many quality home-grown manufacturers could not compete with the cheap > foreign imports, and priced themselves out of the market and out of business. > Yes; early foreign stuff was not good quality, but the Far East has superb > manufacturing plants and technology now. >> The blame for crap quality lies with greedy distributors and tight wad >> end users - the Chinese are simply doing what they were asked to. > Absolutely true. There are some great Chinese engineers, and they are good at > doing what an engineer does best - designing and making to a tight spec. >> If they don't the Indians, Koreans or someone else will ;) >> > Yes. They are all busy making machines and money. > > On the other hand, some lower-priced 'manufacturers' do keep a tight control > of quality, and can still produce a pretty good product, manufactured > overseas, at a fairly reasonable price for the use it will get. That means I > have friends who have quite nice lathes and mills, of very reasonable > quality, which they would otherwise not have been able to afford. That's > important. There is a substantial difference in quality between machines at > the mid-to-lower end of the price scale, but the good ones are perfectly good > for many purposes. The very cheap and very nasty lathes, mills (and any other > product) are there for those who can't or won't pay higher prices for better > quality. > > Marcus > >> Steve Blackmore >> -- >>
I've been involved in the installation and programming of some machines that surround a large mixer that was made in China. The machine cost near $1 million. The installation and surrounding support machines cost several million. The machine has been in place for about a year. In that time some notable things have occurred. After a few hours of operation the multistrand V belt pulley on the main drive came loose and fell off the shaft. The pulley is about 5 feet in diameter, the shaft about 6" diameter and it weighs thousands of pounds. The main drive motor that spins this pulley is close to 1000 hp. The problem: An incorrectly machined taperlock bushing. The machine has a large hydraulic system. Several hydraulic cylinders have snapped off their rods.. for no apparent reason. Recently a large worm gear broke approximately 28 inches in diameter. The brass/bronze gear was cast over a steel center probably to minimize the cost of the bronze/brass. The brass outer ring was too thin and parted from the steel center. When the gear ring was removed all of the bolts (20 - approximately 25 mm in diameter) were loose and wallowing out the holes in the gear (approximate 20). After watching all of this history unfold I asked a fellow engineer where this machine will be in 20 years and we both concurred. It will be scrapped long before then. It is a throw away - million dollar machine. There is no doubt that we have only seen a few of the major defects that have been built into this machine. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dive into the World of Parallel Programming. The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ _______________________________________________ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
