On Thursday 10 September 2015 10:36:04 Peter C. Wallace wrote:

> On Thu, 10 Sep 2015, Tom Easterday wrote:
> > Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 10:07:59 -0400
> > From: Tom Easterday <[email protected]>
> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> >     <[email protected]>
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G33 and
> > motion-spindle-speed-in,
> >     motion-spindle-revs (2.7.0-pre7)
> >
> > The encoder is fed into a Mesa 7i85s/5i25 running Hostmot2 encoder
> > module. I donÿÿt see any other output I could useÿÿ
> >
> >The Halscope plot which I mean to post with the first message is
> > here: http://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/noise-velocity.png
> >-Tom
>
> Looks like you spindle simply cannot keep accurate speed control at
> the very low speed you are turning (50 RPM?) I suspect if you really
> need accurate 50 RPM speeds a VFD is not going to do it without a
> large gear reduction

I have not encountered anything even remotely resembling that on my lathe 
with its 200 edge/turn A/B/Z homemade encoder.

If it was jerking at 50 revs, thats more than 1 second per turn and the 
speed changes would be extremely visible.  Thats not saying mine is dead 
smooth at 50 revs, but Z tracks its speed variations quite well, making 
a lot of racket from the Z stepper racheting its speed up and down in 
exact time with the spindle speed.

Gotta be something else going on.

An accidentally wide deadband setting in the Z's PID?

addf's in the hal file waaaayyy out of fall thru sequence in one 
servo-thread cycle?  All that stuff should be addf'd in the order of the 
signal path thru each logic function.  But I'm sure you knew that, Tom.

Way to low a pid.s.Pgain because it oscillated because of the above lag?

Going a ways off;

Here, in an attempt to get some low revs control, I have some hal stuff 
setup to change the pid.s.bias according to the direction sign, and that 
goes quite a ways to compensate for friction in the drive, but that just 
went up when I double bearinged both ends of the jackshaft in an attempt 
to keep the shaft from walking thru the bearings, mucking up the timing 
belt alignment.  That, nor threadlocker green succeeded in stopping 
that, so yesterday some nylon spacers were trimmed for length and 
installed to control that. I would have used a piece of 1/2" ID alu 
tubing for that but TSC only had 3/4" even in steel.  So the friction 
has gone up and I'll probably have to increase it from 40 or -40 in 
order to get a creep speed with the first button click on the direction 
icon. (axis)

I'd post that section of my ini file, but because I've been having drive 
going away problems which caused this major rebuild to take place, the 
PID.S settings are all zeroed out except FF0 in preparation for getting 
rid of about 40 lines of hal stuff I was sequencing the G33.1 direction 
turnarounds with.  With Jon's (Pico Systems) pwn servo amp as a full 4 
quadrant control, I can turn its direction around much faster if the 
motor shaft is well pinned into the flywheel.  And it now is, with 2 
10-24 set screws about 3/8" long drilled and tapped into the threaded 
joint these treadmill motors all use.  All that seems to need is a 
limit3, with a maxa setting to slow it down and reverse it.

I used that same amp-driver in the GO704, and it can do a fwd/reverse, or 
reverse to fwd, in 1 second at 2500 revs on that light spindle.

I don't expect to do that on this lathe because that chuck is north of 20 
lbs, but I do expect to improve the almost 5 turns of overshoot at 450 
rpms, a good speed to do rigid tapping at.  Curious, I'd put in some hal 
stuff to measure that so I could read out the overshoot on a halmeter. 

So while it works, and works well in fact, I'd always run the G33.1 with 
a pecking at an ever greater depth loop wrapped around the G33.1.  So 
that nearly 5 turns was with a cutting load on it for usually the last 
1/2 turn as thats my usual  peck increment.  I have a pause in the 
backed away position to give me time to blow the swarf out of the tap, 
and re-anoint it with a drop of tap-magic.

This is an interesting problem Tom, and when you do find it, please post 
what you found.

> > On Sep 10, 2015, at 7:18 AM, andy pugh <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > On 10 September 2015 at 02:53, Tom Easterday <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> believe there really is a small variation in the spindle but not
> >> sure why or how to deal with it so that
> >
> > Does your encoder counter offer a position-interpolated output? That
> > might be smoother.
>
> With a 1024 line encoder the position is going to be pretty smooth
> already
>
> > --
> > atp
> > If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> > http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >---------- Monitor Your Dynamic Infrastructure at Any Scale With
> > Datadog! Get real-time metrics from all of your servers, apps and
> > tools in one place.
> > SourceForge users - Click here to start your Free Trial of Datadog
> > now!
> > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=241902991&iu=/4140
> > _______________________________________________
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------- Monitor Your Dynamic Infrastructure at Any Scale With Datadog!
> Get real-time metrics from all of your servers, apps and tools in one
> place.
> SourceForge users - Click here to start your Free Trial of Datadog
> now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=241902991&iu=/4140
> _______________________________________________
> Emc-users mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
>
> (\__/)
> (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
> (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Monitor Your Dynamic Infrastructure at Any Scale With Datadog!
Get real-time metrics from all of your servers, apps and tools
in one place.
SourceForge users - Click here to start your Free Trial of Datadog now!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=241902991&iu=/4140
_______________________________________________
Emc-users mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Reply via email to