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From: Youness Alaoui <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Simon TRENY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [E-devel] Starting programming in EFL On Tue, Sep 11, 2007 at 01:31:52AM +0200, Simon TRENY wrote: > On Sun, 9 Sep 2007 16:28:52 -0700, > Michael Jennings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote : > [...] > > > Then I was approached by the ETK developers and I was also 'bought' > > > by them into using ETK. saying that ETK is more stable, more > > > maintained and the performance is also very good (not better than > > > EWL but the difference for a 'normal' application (not using > > > thousands of widgets at once) is not noticeable). > > > > EWL has better performance, period. Just because the human eye/brain > > cannot perceive the difference in certain circumstances doesn't > > invalidate it, any more than an imperceptable difference in execution > > time between a single bubble sort and a single quicksort makes them > > equally efficient. > > I have to rectify this a little. There is a big difference in > philosophy between Ewl and Etk. With Ewl, everything is a widget (the > cell-objects of a tree-row are widgets) while with Etk, that's > absolutely not the case. And this changes *everything*. Let's take a > real-case example: let's say you are creating an audio player with a > playlist. The playlist uses a tree which has several columns for the > artist, the track-number, the title, the length, the album, the > user-note, etc. Now let's assume that the user drags-and-drops its > entire song collection into the playlist (~10000 songs). With Ewl, it > will result in having 10000*number-of-columns widgets (which will be by > the way slow as hell because you need to create all these widgets when > the user "drops" his collection, and it may also crash your machine > because you may run out of memory...). With Etk, there will still be > one widget for the tree and... that's all. Memory consumption will also > be minimal with Etk (no need to allocate the whole widget structure just > for cell-data). > > So indeed, Ewl can handle a high number of widgets a lot more > efficiently than Etk. But that's only because it HAS to! You will never > have more than 300 widgets in an application coded with Etk. With Ewl, > as soon as you use a tree, the number of widgets will increase heavily > (and you won't even be able to control this since it all depends on the > user input). So please, when you are doing some benchmarks, compare > "real-life" cases, not cases that can only occur on one side. > > If you want to test it by yourself, just run ewl_test and etk_test, and > launch the tests for the tree widgets (tree2 for ewl). When you launch > the tree-test of etk_test, it automatically creates 3000 rows. Now, try > to set the number of rows in ewl_test to 3000... > Hi, Thanks for this explanation, it's helpful to have detailed info on such use cases. > > [...] > > > > > Can we please finally have an official, objective answer on this > > > very important matter, without partiality and without people > > > trolling one toolkit with false arguments only for the sake of > > > convincing us to choose their own toolkit. > > I think the best you can do to make your choice is too run both > ewl_test and etk_test and try all the widgets, and compare the > look-and-feel. Simple widgets will obviously feel the same (a button > will feel the same way with the two toolkits), but try more complex > widgets. If you don't feel any difference, then look at the code of the > test apps, and choose the toolkit with the API that you prefer. > > Open source is also about having choices. It may sometimes (often?) > seem messy, but it's all about freedom. You have several browsers, > several audio players, several WM, and... several toolkits. That's just > the way it is, and it's not gonna change. People are doing this first > because they enjoy to do it. > > Yes, I tried them both, that's the first thing that made me like etk more than ewl, basically because of stability, since the ewl_test kept crashing for many of the widgets, and it had a huge amount of glitches. But also the look and feel seemed to be better. Simple example is the paned window, I like the animated arrows that ewl doesn't have. About the API, I know the ETK API now, but I don't know much about the EWL API yet, I'll probably look into it and see how it goes.. Thanks again for this helpful info. KaKaRoTo ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
