Toma wrote:
> On 31/07/2008, Jose Gonzalez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I wrote:
>>
>>> .......
>>>
>>>>> As to the above mentioned steps.. I disagree with some of the
>>>>> arguments,
>>>>> but they are also not unreasonable - so long as everyone realizes that
>>>>> the state
>>>>> of many things in E is still rather basic and are willing to 'break' apis
>>>>> on
>>>>> major releases when they bring good improvements.. E is still small
>>>>> enough that
>>>>> it can be fluid if it wants to.
>>>>>
>>>>> But, one very important thing to consider here is: What exactly is
>>>>> it that
>>>>> E wants to achieve? What are the basic 'large' goals?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Thats a funny one, because a lot of people say "Oh, E17 isnt as good
>>>> as Gnome... or KDE" when its not completely a desktop environmant like
>>>> those 2. It has a lot of the mechanics of a full DE and being so
>>>> modular, could fill the things needed to become a full DE from that
>>>> point. (And then you ask, whats the difference between what E17 is now
>>>> and a full DE?!? I dont know. Ask wikipedia or something.) If it was
>>>> competeing souly against WMs like fluxbox and friends, then thats
>>>> already done and kicking ass.
>>>>
>>>> If anything, it might be an idea to ask people, what 'needs' to be
>>>> done? I see a few people on IRC and on forums saying, "E17 is good,
>>>> but its just not finished/has bits missing". Some lusers go as far to
>>>> say "Err E17 is buggy and not stable! Waa" simply becuase there isnt a
>>>> 1.0 release.
>>>>
>>>> Toma
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I'm not sure I follow some of this. There are many different things
>>> that
>>> "E" could do or become, it's not just a question of what the
>>> wm/desktop-shell
>>> could do/be, or even what a desktop environment of some sort could do/be.
>>> There are questions of development 'platforms', what they might be
>>> geared
>>> to develop, what they might emphasize, and such... and there are questions
>>> of
>>> what kinds of apps or further libs or frameworks people might want to build
>>> beyond that, to create some sort of coherent 'environment(s)' and such.
>>> If you're going to "ask people", then it depends who these people are
>>> and what kind of audience they are: end-users of apps? end-users of desktop
>>> environments/shells/whatnot? theme designers (of what)? developers of apps?
>>> "rich" app developers? etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Forgot to mention a few other relevant ones: developers of web
>> apis/services?
>> developers of gfx/canvas libs? developers of gui toolkits? ...
>>
>> My questions were directed at the audience consisting of all "E"
>> developers. :)
>>
>>
>>
>
> Yes... I mean ask the general random normal desktop users that wander
> into #e on freenode and ask those kind of questions. After all, theyre
> the ones that want to use E17. I think developers tend to think like
> developers and dont tend to see the importance of mundane little
> things that the average Joe likes/wants. Thats why companies employ
> market researchers to see whats needed and wanted. Im not saying E
> needs anyone dedicated to market research, but its something to keep
> in mind. Personally, I made a couple black themes then people said
> "You should try making a light theme", so I made Edjy and Cerium.
> Thats an exmaple of listening to the 'market'.
>
>
Ok, sure. But in the case of developers that are building things like
a gfx lib or a gui toolkit, then their "market" might be other developers,
not directly end-users-of-some-app.
> Having said that, I see alot of enthusiasm on random tech forums for
> EFL and you could see the reaction on the aMSN forums when you
> compared EFL directly to EFL. People scrambled to get EFL installed
>
Errr.. I'm not sure I follow you here, but I guess this is a good thing?
> and were really impressed by how it looked. The biggest problem
> everyone had (including myself) was building the libraries needed, and
> I dare say would have been a lot easier if there was a packages
> release of EFL-Python and all its deps.
>
> So maybe a more steady snapshot schedule and perhaps a couple days of
> *Bug Extermination* before those snapshots so developers and users a
> like can access it all a little easier?
>
> Toma
>
Maybe what you're trying to get at here is the issue of releasing the
libs that Vincent and Nathan pointed to, or some of them, and e17 as well.
I personally don't think evas, ecore, edje are ready for 'release' in the
sense of them being so stable that further near-future changes wouldn't break
anything. Not near really.
However, that doesn't mean they couldn't be released as they are, and
leave
such changes for a future version of those libs. But then I'm not the
maintainer(s)
of those libs, and they may disagree with me.
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