On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 17:30:53 +0100 Thomas Gstädtner <tho...@gstaedtner.net> wrote:
> On 13.11.2011 17:15, Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 2:07 PM, David Seikel <onef...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > >> On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 16:54:53 +0100 Thomas Gstädtner > >> <tho...@gstaedtner.net> wrote: > >> > >>> On So 13 Nov 2011 16:29:02 CET, Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri wrote: > >>>> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 11:54 AM, David Seikel > >>>> <onef...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 04:30:55 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri > >>>>> <barbi...@profusion.mobi> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> BTW, I have Marina's icon for CPU & Temp, but I don't use them > >>>>>> and I think they should not exist for a desktop or laptops > >>>>>> nowadays (I also know the reasons, but AFAIK they are all fixed > >>>>>> in the proper places, like the kernel). So if someone wants to > >>>>>> convert these gadgets to similar look & feel, let me know. > >>>>> > >>>>> Maybe I misunderstand what you mean. > >>>>> > >>>>> It's quite hot here in summer, and it is crucial that I keep an > >>>>> eye on my CPU's temperature. There is the difference between > >>>>> "so hot things might be unstable" and "so hot the computer will > >>>>> shut down for safety". Knowing that I'm at the first stage > >>>>> means I know to not trust things, but can keep using my > >>>>> computer if things seem to be fine. Knowing that I'm getting > >>>>> close to the second stage means I know when to just shut it > >>>>> down properly, open the case, and point big fans at it. > >>>> > >>>> This is exactly what I mean with fixing it in the wrong place. > >>>> Here (Brazil) is very hot the whole year, I knew this problem > >>>> from Athlon days :-) > >>>> > >>>> The problem is "what if you're not there to change?". The kernel > >>>> is always there, with the highest priority. There is work to > >>>> make it throttle before more drastic measures. > >>>> > >>>> anyway, I'm just not doing the gadgets theme work. Feel free to > >>>> work on them with the icons I have. You can base the edc from > >>>> efenniht as the icons are basically the same. > >>>> > >>>>> I don't think either of those things is "fixed in the kernel". > >>>>> Only reason why I don't use the E module for those is that it > >>>>> could never show proper results for my motherboard, not even for > >>>>> my last motherboard. lol > >>>> > >>>> at least for intel i7 cpu there is throttling module, it's > >>>> mandatory due the turbo boost feature they provide (using a > >>>> single core will allow it to be overclocked) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Not sure what you mean by "CPU", the only thing I can think of > >>>>> is the cpu and cpufreq modules. As a developer they provide > >>>>> important info to me. On the other hand, I don't use cpu, coz > >>>>> it does not provide a graph, and I use cpufreq, coz I have not > >>>>> found anything that does provide a graph. lol > >>>> > >>>> it's the cpufreq, it is just the filling of a cpu chip icon > >>>> Marina draw. Check efenniht and it's the same. Not a graph > >>>> indeed. > >>>> > >>>> here it's the same thing, proven that cpu "ondemand" governor is > >>>> the way to go, people even talk about removing other governors > >>>> one day. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> I don't see why these things should not exist for desktops or > >>>>> laptops. Certainly for me at least, they should exist, AND > >>>>> should have more functionality. > >>>> > >>>> go for it, but I'd at least move them to a "dev" or "geek" module > >>>> that aggregates all these things, a gkrellm like module. The > >>>> problem is that most users will not have a clue what are these > >>>> things and get confused. > >>>> > >>>> this last part is not just about cpu/temp modules, there are a > >>>> huge number of modules people have no idea what are... "dbus? > >>>> what's this? why should I turn it on? or off?" Maybe flag these > >>>> modules are "advanced" and just show them in an "advanced" > >>>> option in modules dialog. > >>>> > >>> > >>> I agree. There used to be a time when CPUs, the firmware and the > >>> kernel had trouble keeping the hardware out of trouble, but these > >>> days have long been gone. > >>> There is really no reason to bother the user with temperature, as > >>> he will never have to care even if it rises up to 100 deg celsius. > >>> > >>> A cpufreq module is even worse, especially if it supports > >>> userspace interaction. The linux kernels ondemand governor works > >>> good for many years now, there are no more senseless slowdowns as > >>> there used to be some years back. Having a possibility to make > >>> the user interfere makes him think it might be wise, e.g. setting > >>> it to "max performance" or similar stupid decisions. > >>> > >>> Don't get me wrong, of course it can be neat for curious users to > >>> have those things, but I don't think they should be enabled by > >>> default, and no "standard" user should see them. > >> > >> That's the mistake GNOME makes, thinking that standard users > >> should not see stuff. In E17 land, we let people turn on advanced > >> stuff. So the theme should cater for that to. > > I can absolutely understand your argument, and I too think E should > enable users to do whatever they possibly wish. > But having temperature available is just arbitrary information, might > as well show the power-led brightness (I can't think of any other that > useless information, so this will stay the only example for now :), > there are at least 100 more important hardware parameters that > generally aren't displayed. > And as I explained, having cpufreq by default is contra-productive at > best, it's basically like having a button that says "drain my battery > quicker" :) > > >> Plus - people want their red speed stripes and self compiled gentoo > >> distros, thinking it gives them MORE POWAH! grunt grunt grunt. So > >> no need to take away the advanced knobs, even if they no longer > >> really help. > > > > Your saying that to two gentoo users ;-) > > :) > Indeed, no need to take them away, but at least make the users > actively turn them on would be wise imho. > > > Really, it is solving the problem in the wrong place as I said. > > > > What about having a gadget that shows a menu of /sys? MORE POWAH! > > Then you can go and change every parameter you wish, power!... Ugh, > > feels awkward, no? That's the same feeling I have when I see > > temperature and cpu :-) > > > > I would much prefer a /sys frontend to the above mentioned frontends > we have now, at least you _could_ do useful stuff with that. The point I'm trying to make is that such gadgets exist, and they are standard gadgets that ship with E17. So themes should support that. This thread is about a theme. Arguments about whether or not these gadgets should exist is another topic. Quite frankly, they ARE options, no one is forced to enable them. Whether or not you can get useful info out of them or gkrellm when I can is just not important to anyone. All the information I mentioned is in fact important to me, or I'd not mention it at all. The kernel is not clever enough to tell me if I need better cooling, a bigger power supply, faster CPUs, more cores, more memory, etc. The graphs in gkrellm for instance did help me figure out why more cores did not speed up the compiling of EFL And E17, but did speed up the compiling of the large 3D project I'm working on. They helped me to find out where the slow down in my embedded project is. One man's useless is another man's must have feature. They exist, you don't have to use them. But this theme should probably support them, especially since you have the graphics already. Just saying. shrugs -- A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world.
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