On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 17:41:45 +0000 Iván Briano (Sachiel) <sachi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2011/11/13 Thomas Gstädtner <tho...@gstaedtner.net>: > > On 13.11.2011 17:15, Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri wrote: > >> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 2:07 PM, David Seikel <onef...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 16:54:53 +0100 Thomas Gstädtner > >>> <tho...@gstaedtner.net> wrote: > >>> > >>>> On So 13 Nov 2011 16:29:02 CET, Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri wrote: > >>>>> On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 11:54 AM, David Seikel <onef...@gmail.com> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 04:30:55 -0200 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri > >>>>>> <barbi...@profusion.mobi> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> BTW, I have Marina's icon for CPU & Temp, but I don't use them > >>>>>>> and I think they should not exist for a desktop or laptops > >>>>>>> nowadays (I also know the reasons, but AFAIK they are all fixed > >>>>>>> in the proper places, like the kernel). So if someone wants to > >>>>>>> convert these gadgets to similar look & feel, let me know. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Maybe I misunderstand what you mean. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> It's quite hot here in summer, and it is crucial that I keep an > >>>>>> eye on my CPU's temperature. There is the difference between "so > >>>>>> hot things might be unstable" and "so hot the computer will shut > >>>>>> down for safety". Knowing that I'm at the first stage means I > >>>>>> know to not trust things, but can keep using my computer if things > >>>>>> seem to be fine. Knowing that I'm getting close to the second > >>>>>> stage means I know when to just shut it down properly, open the > >>>>>> case, and point big fans at it. > >>>>> > >>>>> This is exactly what I mean with fixing it in the wrong place. Here > >>>>> (Brazil) is very hot the whole year, I knew this problem from Athlon > >>>>> days :-) > >>>>> > >>>>> The problem is "what if you're not there to change?". The kernel is > >>>>> always there, with the highest priority. There is work to make it > >>>>> throttle before more drastic measures. > >>>>> > >>>>> anyway, I'm just not doing the gadgets theme work. Feel free to work > >>>>> on them with the icons I have. You can base the edc from efenniht as > >>>>> the icons are basically the same. > >>>>> > >>>>>> I don't think either of those things is "fixed in the kernel". > >>>>>> Only reason why I don't use the E module for those is that it > >>>>>> could never show proper results for my motherboard, not even for > >>>>>> my last motherboard. lol > >>>>> > >>>>> at least for intel i7 cpu there is throttling module, it's mandatory > >>>>> due the turbo boost feature they provide (using a single core will > >>>>> allow it to be overclocked) > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Not sure what you mean by "CPU", the only thing I can think of is > >>>>>> the cpu and cpufreq modules. As a developer they provide > >>>>>> important info to me. On the other hand, I don't use cpu, coz it > >>>>>> does not provide a graph, and I use cpufreq, coz I have not found > >>>>>> anything that does provide a graph. lol > >>>>> > >>>>> it's the cpufreq, it is just the filling of a cpu chip icon Marina > >>>>> draw. Check efenniht and it's the same. Not a graph indeed. > >>>>> > >>>>> here it's the same thing, proven that cpu "ondemand" governor is the > >>>>> way to go, people even talk about removing other governors one day. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> I don't see why these things should not exist for desktops or > >>>>>> laptops. Certainly for me at least, they should exist, AND should > >>>>>> have more functionality. > >>>>> > >>>>> go for it, but I'd at least move them to a "dev" or "geek" module > >>>>> that aggregates all these things, a gkrellm like module. The > >>>>> problem is that most users will not have a clue what are these > >>>>> things and get confused. > >>>>> > >>>>> this last part is not just about cpu/temp modules, there are a huge > >>>>> number of modules people have no idea what are... "dbus? what's > >>>>> this? why should I turn it on? or off?" Maybe flag these modules > >>>>> are "advanced" and just show them in an "advanced" option in modules > >>>>> dialog. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> I agree. There used to be a time when CPUs, the firmware and the > >>>> kernel had trouble keeping the hardware out of trouble, but these > >>>> days have long been gone. > >>>> There is really no reason to bother the user with temperature, as he > >>>> will never have to care even if it rises up to 100 deg celsius. > >>>> > >>>> A cpufreq module is even worse, especially if it supports userspace > >>>> interaction. The linux kernels ondemand governor works good for many > >>>> years now, there are no more senseless slowdowns as there used to be > >>>> some years back. Having a possibility to make the user interfere > >>>> makes him think it might be wise, e.g. setting it to "max > >>>> performance" or similar stupid decisions. > >>>> > >>>> Don't get me wrong, of course it can be neat for curious users to > >>>> have those things, but I don't think they should be enabled by > >>>> default, and no "standard" user should see them. > >>> > >>> That's the mistake GNOME makes, thinking that standard users should not > >>> see stuff. In E17 land, we let people turn on advanced stuff. So the > >>> theme should cater for that to. > > > > I can absolutely understand your argument, and I too think E should > > enable users to do whatever they possibly wish. > > But having temperature available is just arbitrary information, might as > > well show the power-led brightness (I can't think of any other that > > useless information, so this will stay the only example for now :), > > there are at least 100 more important hardware parameters that generally > > aren't displayed. > > And as I explained, having cpufreq by default is contra-productive at > > best, it's basically like having a button that says "drain my battery > > quicker" :) > > > > I had my computer shutdown because it overheated building WebKit. > I started using the temperature module then, after never even trying it, > and it lets know when I can run make -j9 without problems and when I > should cancel it and go with a lower value. > > You don't like the module? Disable it. It's an option, and Enlightenment > has always been about the user having as much choice as possible. I think this is the important idea to keep in mind. Themes should support all core modules, and anyone who doesn't like a module can just disable it. Your personal views on "what a user needs/wants" should not impact what they actually are able to do here. > > >>> Plus - people want their red speed stripes and self compiled gentoo > >>> distros, thinking it gives them MORE POWAH! grunt grunt grunt. So no > >>> need to take away the advanced knobs, even if they no longer really > >>> help. > >> > >> Your saying that to two gentoo users ;-) > > > > :) > > Indeed, no need to take them away, but at least make the users actively > > turn them on would be wise imho. > > > >> Really, it is solving the problem in the wrong place as I said. > >> > >> What about having a gadget that shows a menu of /sys? MORE POWAH! Then > >> you can go and change every parameter you wish, power!... Ugh, feels > >> awkward, no? That's the same feeling I have when I see temperature and > >> cpu :-) > >> > > > > I would much prefer a /sys frontend to the above mentioned frontends we > > have now, at least you _could_ do useful stuff with that. > > -- Mike Blumenkrantz Zentific: Doctor recommended, mother approved. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ RSA(R) Conference 2012 Save $700 by Nov 18 Register now http://p.sf.net/sfu/rsa-sfdev2dev1 _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
