On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 09:38:20 -0500 Jeff Hoogland <jeffhoogl...@linux.com> said:
i'm going to respond here and include some stuff put into the thread so far.
before i do that note that several efl devs you'd want to talk to are not
subscribed to this mailing list, so expect you are seeing a subset of the
audience.
now covering some of the reddit comments. they are talking of the bodhi linux
theme, and at a personal level, i agree. i don't like it. why? color selection
for starters. orange and green. not a great choice. the default theme isn't an
accident. i actually did research. i didn't want to be light as frankly it's
glaring on the eyes and looking at a large set of our userbase, they like dark
themes. also it's "different" and thus makes e stand out. if e blends in and is
just like everything else, then from a marketing point of view, we have much
less to offer.
now the theme is dark (i chose dark greys so i could have some contrast and
difference between elements than pure black), with blue hilights. blue is NOT
an accident:
http://isp.netscape.com/whatsnew/package.jsp?name=fte/popularcolor/popularcolor
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/colors1.html
http://www.hgtv.com/color/the-5-most-popular-colors-from-hgtvcom/pictures/index.html
http://www.thetoptens.com/top-ten-favorite-colors/
http://forum.softpedia.com/topic/577468-culoarea-masinii-preferinte-in-diverse-zone-ale-globului/
http://autos.aol.com/article/color-study-2009/
http://www.mojomotors.com/blog/the-most-popular-car-colors/
http://www.catsynth.com/2007/01/fun-with-stats-most-popular-car-colors/
(i can continue finding references).
notice several things. black (or dark grey) and blue feature high in preferences
of people around the world. see the psychology one. black gives power and
authority, it also implies professionalism. blue implies peace and tranquility
and can improve productivity.
these choices are far from being an accident. also dark colors use less power
on oled panels. :)
now for being different. attracting attention. standing out. if we looked the
same, we'd blend in and then you find it hard to get people to switch. "you're
just the same!". they look at screenshots. they dont spend the time to use and
get to know e. they make their decisions on pretty pictures.
so the bodhi color choice i would say goes contrary to what is popular and is
"acceptable" for people. sure - the green stands out, but people don't really
like green for their ui. looking at the theme, it looks almost EXACTLY like a
green version of ubuntu. i look at it and go "ewww. uglier ubuntu.". it has no
character. it has no soul. it has no identity of its own. it's a copy of an
existing ui just with worse colors and less polish. you want specific feedback,
and this is it. at least from me. read up on color psychology and popularity
and then make a good choice. :)
the next problem is the ubuntu copy look. it just looks bad. it may blend well
with ubuntus mods to gtk so it fits, but then it provides no individual
character of its own. e then is just a poor copy of unity in ubuntu.
for e's default theme i chose the colors, then another concept - squareness. i
made my gtk match - see attached gtkrc. at least color-wise it doesn't stand out
glaringly like a sore thumb, but there is a limit to how well they can match.
back to the default. yes - i chose bevels with shadows and some gradients. yes
it's "old fashioned". the bitchers you see want something that looks just like
the flat design in the new osx or what google puts on their pages. they want it
because they love following fashion. in a few years fashion will change again.
i, for one, am not the kind of person who reads the fashion mags and buys a new
pare of pants, shoes etc. just because it's "the in thing this season", but
reality is a lot of people are just that and they will rain insults down on you
unless what you provide matches THEIR exact perceived idea of what is "cool"
today. i chose the bevels and shadows because there is a lot of ui precedent
that these are important. they indicate to a user that it is a BUTTON to be
CLICKED, as opposed to just some flat rectangle with some text in it. people
have no idea that they can CLICK that. to them it is a passive label. i stopped
listening to fashion followers long ago, because all you end up with is a
continual chasing of the latest trend. reality is that everyone has different
tastes and THAT is what themes are for. we don't really have the manpower to do
more than a single well polished theme. we just don't have artists. even the
default theme is lacking. it lacks many icons it should have. the icons should
be consistent and match the theme, but there just hasn't been time to work on
it all. likely there never will be.
yes - the icons in the default theme need work. now for the bodhi theme. take a
look at the icons in your screenshot, the "i" icon in the about windows has a
pure green that kind of clashes with the green int he background. some icons -
like the about theme one, come from tango. the epad icon looks starkly
different to the pkgkit shield icon to its right. icons should follow the same
style, same look, same lighting and choose colors that don't clash or look
garish. again - this is something an artist understands it's the words to be
given to those that do the artwork.
if you follow that reddit thread talking of webupd8 all the negative comments
are pretty much a "you're not being fashionable!". but then again... several of
the comments are pointing out bodhi mods - like the big red shiny power button
that is basically an early-osx style glassy shine slapped into a ui that is grey
and matte. it just doesn't fit. draw an icon that fits - either an inset grey
power icon or maybe a blue glowing one, but something that matches the scheme.
the button doesn't match at all. it's out of place. that red power button may
be a module you can remove.. but people JUDGE on screenshots - as above. you
want screenshots to look clean and consistent REGARDLESS of style. yes e's
default style has bevels and 3d - but given the comments people actually don't
mind that a lot of the time. it's when you go overboard with shiny glassy
effects that then don't fit, that people start to mock. and they are right. it
looks amateurish. if you have a style, define it and stick to it - everywhere.
again other complaints about "the horrible gradient in the fm sidebar"... that
is a mode from bodhi changing the default. yes - the default could do with more
polish - especially icons, BUT the ad-hoc mods that just don't fit in stand out
and look bad. a lot of comments are personal, color preference "lighter
please" (and you get the revers if you are light). this is something i wanted
to do eventually - generate a mid grey and light version of the default theme
from the original, BUT i just haven't gotten to it and i'd want to polish it up
more. i only made colorclasses work again recently. simotek has been working on
his scripts and tools to generate new colors versions of the default and that
is good. they at least look consistent and polished.
also there needs to be control. edje files are insanely complex. they can do a
hell of a lot. a lot of the design is in restricting what you do. keeping to a
simple and consistent subset of colors, shapes and concepts. bad themes just
turn on everything including the kitchen sink.
also another note. all the HAPPY users go away and be happy. they stay quiet.
you hear the noise of the UNHAPPY ones, so it always looks out of proportion.
there is also always a large set of noisy trolls that love to beat down on
anything but their favorite chosen thing.
summary - don't do half-arsed themes. do a full completely done and consistent
theme that pays attention to color phsychology. don't mix and match styles and
components. so dot your i's, cross your t's. make your screenshots LOOK GOOD.
people will judge you on them. most will. choose conservative colors in general
and make sure everything is polished and consistent. that is what lends quality
to something.
yes the config dialogs are a mess. it's 10 years of config option addition one
after another. it needs a re-do, but the time just hasn't been there as other
things are more important to where the resources come from (EFL itself, wayland
etc.). if i had the time, i'd have redone all the icons by now and have a
decent icon theme that ships with e that has 100's of the icons needed to cover
most apps. but i don't. :(
does this help?
> Is basically the feedback I get from non-E users most times. Thoughts on
> this?
>
> Recent example ->
> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/27qt7k/bodhi_linux_300_rc1_released_ubuntu_1404_base/
>
> --
> ~Jeff Hoogland <http://jeffhoogland.com/>
> Thoughts on Technology <http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/>, Tech Blog
> Bodhi Linux <http://bodhilinux.com/>, Enlightenment for your Desktop
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