On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 11:44:57 -0500 i...@bandshed.net said: > Hi > > I don't receive raster's replies to my inbox, I seem to get everyone > else's so something is amiss there. I could only see his most recent
Your mail setup has decided I'm spam. :) When I reply I reply to both the mailing list and to your email address (CC'd) so if you get nothing then chances are its something int your mail client deciding I'm spam :) if it was only the mail cc'd to you then it may be your mailserver not liking mine, but seemingly your mailserver is ok with e.org's mailserver so you should see my reply to the list - which you don't. So check spam. > reply by reading it on SourceForge. Anyway I'm not going to cut and > paste here. I think there has been some feathers ruffled and hyperbole > on both sides and I will own my part. I asked about Places and what the > thoughts were and all I expected was knowing 'the thoughts'.. By > outlining the basis for the question with use cases for examples I was > not intending to demand anything be done, I was simply trying to make it I'm going to have to quote you: "I think Places should just be part of the main DE release". Your email was clearly an ask to do this. you have made a choice downstream to use it and use something that is not efm. Your choice. But you are very clearly writing an email asking - to make life easier for you to put places into e. It's a soft ask asked in a kind-of round-about way a bit - but still an ask. This is the way people ask softly to try and get a yes as generally a harsh "put it in" on the other end almost always leads to a push-back regardless of reasons. You've read my responses by now. :) > clear the reasons I would ask the opinion on such a thing. An answer of > 'no!' was never going to be a problem and simply saying "it's too much > new code to introduce and babysit and I don't want to make time for > that" also would answer the question and be an inarguable answer without > needing to question or make assumptions about anything else. You're the > King and it's your court, all understood! Indeed that is what I said - I also said that by doing what you asked I'd also encourage you not to do anything about efm - you will continue to avoid it. I say this from experience. 90% of code I've started was a result of being annoyed with something. Once I get annoyed enough, I just dig in and fix it one way or another. I'm applying that maxim to you. You are suffering a small annoyance by using places and utterly avoiding efm. In your bid to avoid it you don't even know you could fill in the gap of handling e.g. MTP by a script you could write. I am sure you can write a script. The more you then learn what you are dealing with in packaging up avlinux and e - the easier you will find it to modify and support on your end. :) > Look, I'm a big fan of what you're doing and as long as I've been doing > music production on Linux I've found ways to share the system I use > because there is niche but keen interest out there in using Linux that > way. I've never wanted to be a 'Distro', I'm not particularly You know what's funny... This is how it works. I never wanted to write a WM - I actually was far more interested in making a game engine to go up against quake, but I ended up doing that. I didn't plan on writing a cross-platform toolkit, but I ended up there. It happens. You end up just accepting your fate. :) > intelligent or intuitive about code and I'm terrible at math.. I'm > pragmatic, stubborn and don't quit easily and that gets me by. I think I think we all have our faults - I have mine too. One of them is i've become pretty jaded and stressed over the years and now push back probably harder than I should. > our views on this are completely different to the point of being > incomprehensible to each other and I admittedly don't fully understand > your world and the stresses it entails and how developers work and think > and to be honest I don't think you really understand how a 'normie' > approaches using Enlightenment especially if they've never used it > before. When I first came to #e IRC I kind of thought maybe I could be > some sort of a liason to see your side but also present the challenges > of taking what you do and putting a turnkey version of it into the hands > of a User for a dedicated purpose. Elive and Bodhi are not using your > stuff directly so they look after the intermediate bits in their own > ways. Most projects have this middle role, the Packager doesn't code the > Desktop and the guy who generates the Ubuntu ISO images doesn't develop > Gnome. There are multiple pieces connecting the Developer and the User > and I understand clearly now that you are really not looking for that > kind of 'help' or feedback so taking any emotional element out of it I'm > wasting my time wasting your time with things you don't necessarily want > or need to know about. Fair deal! I really just don't want to make e something I won't like to use. If that happens then I will cease working on it. It will have no appeal to me. I know that full well. I add options to allow for things and E has an absolute metric tonne of them. One of the visions for E is to be a "one stop shop" for all the basics - manage files, run and manage apps, manage all the core settings for your machine/GUI. In not using efm even if it has limitations you're avoiding part of that and I am going to push back on anything like that. E is different - it always has been. It always will be. Imagine Apple just said "ok we'll copy windows as much as possible to get users". MacOS would cease to be MacOS. It would cease to have a soul. It would have little point in existing. I am very aware of that. There is a mindset of "I must acquire as many users as I can and will do whatever I can to get that". I am not of that mindset. I'm of "I want to build something beautiful, sleek, slick, efficient that does a ll the nuts and bolts I need every day that has a soul". My idea of that soul will be colored by my past - I never used windows. I came from the Amiga world which was a bit more mac-ish GUI wise with slighty unixey like shell and underpinnings. I also am heavily influenced by the X11 days of the 90's where pointer focus is the default etc. - so what I'm making is a mix of these with the ability to theme/customize immensely. No one to date has even scratched the surface of the capabilities of what themes can do. It';s on my todo list to make some demonstrations of that. I have a long todo list. > I may dabble in some E theme mods, I may pretty some things up with > alternate graphics for my own purpose but I'm 56 and and I'm not > suddenly going to develop an aptitude for something as complex as EFL > code not am I going to step up and fill gaps in E's mortar with an > approved EFL coded solution so as messy as getting here as been See my previous mails - you can solve the MTP etc. problems with something far simpler. :) I am encouraging you to look that way - unless it doesn't matter that much to you - then keep doing what you are doing, but keep in mind it's not something I personally like and would never do myself.. > hopefully it's been valuable to understand each other to prevent a > repeating pattern. I will try to be more mindful of where you're coming > from and think before I ask and hopefully you can see that I have good > will toward E as presenter of your work and I can make a pretty damn > nice platter for it but anything beyond that is not my bag baby.. > Whether that has value to you or not is not my call.. Thanks! And I do hope you have goodwill. I don't intend to be mean. Anyone who actually knows me knows I am not like that. I put in smileys :) to show I'm being friendly with a smile on my face - so read what I say in that context. There's a difference between someone saying "get off your butt" :) <with a smile on their face> vs "GET OFF YOUR BUTT!!!!!!!!!" <in a shouty angry voice> it's incredibly rare I'd ever do the latter. I'd have been pushed incredibly far to do that. I'm almost always going to be pretty plain - I'm not going to carefully re-read my wording to check I might not accidentally offend or whatever. If I have to start doing that I'm going to just choose to say nothing at all ever. > Can we meet there and put this unpleasantness to rest? Yes we can. Consider this and the above a "Look - smile - reach out. sorry if I made you feel bad - my std context is "I don't want to do that so assume any ambiguity is of the pleasant nature". :) > Best, Glen > > --- > > > On 2025-01-24 14:38, Vincent Torri wrote: > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2025 at 7:19 PM <i...@bandshed.net> wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> For some reason I didn't get the email with rasters original reply, I > >> wish I hadn't TBH... I didn't ask for any outside code or any other FM > >> to be added to E, it's raster's module! I also didn't specify that > >> 'Places' should be set up for any application outside of E so as > >> things > >> are currently is adding Places would just augment the functions of EFM > >> and be ready for EFM 2. EFM currently is a wonderful file 'browser' > >> but > >> if you're NOT a developer in the terminal all the time and you need > >> networking support, tabbed interfaces or mounting a phone/tablet > >> without > >> writing your own jmptfs script then EFM is lacking as the primary FM > >> if > >> this weren't true there wouldn't be EFM2 in the works. It's not like I > >> asked "hey can you put Thunar in E?" I asked if an existing module by > >> the same developer might be convenient since some Users of E and all > >> Users of Bodhi, eLive and now AV Linux are all using E with an > >> external > >> File Manager. > >> > >> I've spent 4 years with E, I've spent countless hours putting it into > >> a > >> Live deployable state to get it in front of more eyes because I think > >> it's a great and overlooked DE. I'm not a developer, I work full time > >> and I steal minutes to do what I already do so raster if you're "not > >> going to just do things for people." and if "after many decades i'm > >> kind > >> of a bit old, tired and grumpy. :) i've learned if i do things for > >> people they will NEVER get up and help. if you don't like get > >> up,something in efm - then contribute and fix it." I guess we're clear > >> on future discussions! > >> > >> I wouldn't talk to my dog like that, it was a logical and sensible > >> question given how real people use E.. Given the established history > >> that I like E and am trying to do something creative with it to > >> promote > >> it I can't imagine someone being spoken to like this anywhere else.. > >> Developers of pretty much ANY other DE or application would (a) > >> politely > >> take the question and (b) never tell the User to write their own part > >> of > >> the applications as the FIRST reply, maybe after the 10th question or > >> after being unreasonably demanding for a period of time but not right > >> off the hop. > >> > >> There's certainly no question you're brilliant, there's no question E > >> shows your brilliance but I have so many better things to do than get > >> my > >> ass handed to me for asking an innocent question... I'm not in the DE > >> writing business and surprisingly other projects find people to be > >> useful even if they aren't developers. Enjoy the Ivory Tower! > > > > raster is quite busy and doing almost everything on the EFL and E. > > That might explain his reaction. > > > > But I know that he wants a distro with E 27. > > > > Maybe wait a bit so that the situation calms down a bit ? > > > > best regards > > > > Vincent > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > enlightenment-users mailing list > > enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users > > > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-users mailing list > enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users -- ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- Carsten Haitzler - ras...@rasterman.com _______________________________________________ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
