I was trying to give my mind a rest today until I read this. Tim
On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 11:43 PM, Gary A. Beluzo <[email protected]> wrote: > I am anticipating that someone will make the argument that humans are > "natural' and that MAN-aged systems are thereore natural. However I use the > terms NATURAL and ARTIFICIAL as useful terms to differentate natural systems > that are essentially first-order autopoietic and artificial systems that are > largely created or maintained by humans exterior to the system. In a sense > these managed systems that are autopoietic in the second order. Second > order in the sense that these managed systems are being controlled to lesser > or greater degrees by humans (and therefore are not true first order > autopoietic systems. However because they are managed by first order > autopoietic systems (humans) then they themselves are no longer truly > natural or of first order. > > The key to understanding autopoietic is to consider the location or > original of the system's control or its "operating manual". Regarding a > natural system, the "operating manual" is the collective genome of the > living communiity; the DNA or blueprint for the system is internal to that > system and hence self-created or AUTOPOIETIC. Managed systems are largely > created by DNA that is exterior or outside the system's boundary. > According to this logic, automobiles, houses, computers, and managed forests > are artificial because that all are created or actively regulated by human > hands. > > By the way, I consider NATURE to be the collective genome of all living > systems and their environment. NATURE is self-creating and self-regulating. > We distinguish humans from nature because NATURE is a complex, dynamic > system controlled by unconscious processes, by natural selection. We > appreciate NATURE because it is NOT controlled by us...it is "WILD". I > wouldn't consider a ZOO to be an expression of nature or a natural place > since humans decide which animal reproduces with which other and humans are > controlling the environment of these animals. All of us on this list > intuitively know the difference between a zoo and nature, a natural forest > and a managed plantation. The difficulty comes in placing each forest on > the NATURAL.............................ARTIFICIAL continuum. > > Sorry for the rant... > > Gary > > Gary A. Beluzo > Professor of Environmental Science > Division of Science, Engineering, and Mathematics > Holyoke Community College > 303 Homestead Avenue > Holyoke, MA 01040 > > [email protected] > 413 552-2445 > > > > > On Oct 17, 2009, at 7:07 AM, Joseph Zorzin wrote: > > That's one of Gary Beluzo's favorite terms and he's one of the few people > who understands it and uses it (he may have coined the term) so I'm sure > he'll elaborate. I have a sense of the meaning and I kinda like it- I > believe for Gary, it's what happens in old growth forests- to what extent > it may be a useful principle in any sort of managed forest is the 60 million > dollar question. > > In particular, the question is interesting regarding forests managed for > old growth structures, as described in that brochure. > Joe > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Andrew Joslin <[email protected]> > *To:* [email protected] > *Sent:* Friday, October 16, 2009 1:56 PM > *Subject:* [ENTS] Re: "Restoring Late-Successional Forest Structure"??? > > > Joe, can you get me (us) up-to-speed on the term "autopoietic" as > applied to forest ecology? It sounds like you mean self-regenerating or > self-maintaining, not sure though. > -AJ > > Joseph Zorzin wrote: > > check out > > > http://www.masswoods.net/images/stories/pdf/forest_mgr_guide_ls_structure_web.pdf > > > > comments? > > > > Gary Beluzo? What say ye about this? Those restored pseudo semi old > > growth forests won't be autopoietic? > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org Send email to [email protected] Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
