Gary: I enjoy the Arts because I get energy from creative minds.
Tim On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 12:19 AM, Gary A. Beluzo <[email protected]> wrote: > Tim, > > Mea culpa. > > Gary > > > > > > On Oct 25, 2009, at 12:08 AM, Timothy Zelazo wrote: > > I was trying to give my mind a rest today until I read this. > > Tim > > On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 11:43 PM, Gary A. Beluzo <[email protected]>wrote: > >> I am anticipating that someone will make the argument that humans are >> "natural' and that MAN-aged systems are thereore natural. However I use the >> terms NATURAL and ARTIFICIAL as useful terms to differentate natural systems >> that are essentially first-order autopoietic and artificial systems that are >> largely created or maintained by humans exterior to the system. In a sense >> these managed systems that are autopoietic in the second order. Second >> order in the sense that these managed systems are being controlled to lesser >> or greater degrees by humans (and therefore are not true first order >> autopoietic systems. However because they are managed by first order >> autopoietic systems (humans) then they themselves are no longer truly >> natural or of first order. >> >> The key to understanding autopoietic is to consider the location or >> original of the system's control or its "operating manual". Regarding a >> natural system, the "operating manual" is the collective genome of the >> living communiity; the DNA or blueprint for the system is internal to that >> system and hence self-created or AUTOPOIETIC. Managed systems are largely >> created by DNA that is exterior or outside the system's boundary. >> According to this logic, automobiles, houses, computers, and managed forests >> are artificial because that all are created or actively regulated by human >> hands. >> >> By the way, I consider NATURE to be the collective genome of all living >> systems and their environment. NATURE is self-creating and self-regulating. >> We distinguish humans from nature because NATURE is a complex, dynamic >> system controlled by unconscious processes, by natural selection. We >> appreciate NATURE because it is NOT controlled by us...it is "WILD". I >> wouldn't consider a ZOO to be an expression of nature or a natural place >> since humans decide which animal reproduces with which other and humans are >> controlling the environment of these animals. All of us on this list >> intuitively know the difference between a zoo and nature, a natural forest >> and a managed plantation. The difficulty comes in placing each forest on >> the NATURAL.............................ARTIFICIAL continuum. >> >> Sorry for the rant... >> >> Gary >> >> Gary A. Beluzo >> Professor of Environmental Science >> Division of Science, Engineering, and Mathematics >> Holyoke Community College >> 303 Homestead Avenue >> Holyoke, MA 01040 >> >> [email protected] >> 413 552-2445 >> >> >> >> >> On Oct 17, 2009, at 7:07 AM, Joseph Zorzin wrote: >> >> That's one of Gary Beluzo's favorite terms and he's one of the few people >> who understands it and uses it (he may have coined the term) so I'm sure >> he'll elaborate. I have a sense of the meaning and I kinda like it- I >> believe for Gary, it's what happens in old growth forests- to what extent >> it may be a useful principle in any sort of managed forest is the 60 million >> dollar question. >> >> In particular, the question is interesting regarding forests managed for >> old growth structures, as described in that brochure. >> Joe >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Andrew Joslin <[email protected]> >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Sent:* Friday, October 16, 2009 1:56 PM >> *Subject:* [ENTS] Re: "Restoring Late-Successional Forest Structure"??? >> >> >> Joe, can you get me (us) up-to-speed on the term "autopoietic" as >> applied to forest ecology? It sounds like you mean self-regenerating or >> self-maintaining, not sure though. >> -AJ >> >> Joseph Zorzin wrote: >> > check out >> > >> http://www.masswoods.net/images/stories/pdf/forest_mgr_guide_ls_structure_web.pdf >> > >> > comments? >> > >> > Gary Beluzo? What say ye about this? Those restored pseudo semi old >> > growth forests won't be autopoietic? >> > >> > Joe >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org Send email to [email protected] Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
