Tim, Mea culpa.
Gary On Oct 25, 2009, at 12:08 AM, Timothy Zelazo wrote: > I was trying to give my mind a rest today until I read this. > > Tim > > On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 11:43 PM, Gary A. Beluzo <[email protected]> > wrote: > I am anticipating that someone will make the argument that humans > are "natural' and that MAN-aged systems are thereore natural. > However I use the terms NATURAL and ARTIFICIAL as useful terms to > differentate natural systems that are essentially first-order > autopoietic and artificial systems that are largely created or > maintained by humans exterior to the system. In a sense these > managed systems that are autopoietic in the second order. Second > order in the sense that these managed systems are being controlled > to lesser or greater degrees by humans (and therefore are not true > first order autopoietic systems. However because they are managed > by first order autopoietic systems (humans) then they themselves are > no longer truly natural or of first order. > > The key to understanding autopoietic is to consider the location or > original of the system's control or its "operating manual". > Regarding a natural system, the "operating manual" is the collective > genome of the living communiity; the DNA or blueprint for the system > is internal to that system and hence self-created or AUTOPOIETIC. > Managed systems are largely created by DNA that is exterior or > outside the system's boundary. According to this logic, > automobiles, houses, computers, and managed forests are artificial > because that all are created or actively regulated by human hands. > > By the way, I consider NATURE to be the collective genome of all > living systems and their environment. NATURE is self-creating and > self-regulating. We distinguish humans from nature because NATURE > is a complex, dynamic system controlled by unconscious processes, by > natural selection. We appreciate NATURE because it is NOT > controlled by us...it is "WILD". I wouldn't consider a ZOO to be an > expression of nature or a natural place since humans decide which > animal reproduces with which other and humans are controlling the > environment of these animals. All of us on this list intuitively > know the difference between a zoo and nature, a natural forest and > a managed plantation. The difficulty comes in placing each forest > on the NATURAL.............................ARTIFICIAL continuum. > > Sorry for the rant... > > Gary > > Gary A. Beluzo > Professor of Environmental Science > Division of Science, Engineering, and Mathematics > Holyoke Community College > 303 Homestead Avenue > Holyoke, MA 01040 > > [email protected] > 413 552-2445 > > > > > On Oct 17, 2009, at 7:07 AM, Joseph Zorzin wrote: > >> That's one of Gary Beluzo's favorite terms and he's one of the few >> people who understands it and uses it (he may have coined the term) >> so I'm sure he'll elaborate. I have a sense of the meaning and I >> kinda like it- I believe for Gary, it's what happens in old growth >> forests- to what extent it may be a useful principle in any sort of >> managed forest is the 60 million dollar question. >> >> In particular, the question is interesting regarding forests >> managed for old growth structures, as described in that brochure. >> Joe >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Andrew Joslin >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 1:56 PM >> Subject: [ENTS] Re: "Restoring Late-Successional Forest Structure"??? >> >> >> Joe, can you get me (us) up-to-speed on the term "autopoietic" as >> applied to forest ecology? It sounds like you mean self- >> regenerating or >> self-maintaining, not sure though. >> -AJ >> >> Joseph Zorzin wrote: >> > check out >> > http://www.masswoods.net/images/stories/pdf/forest_mgr_guide_ls_structure_web.pdf >> > >> > comments? >> > >> > Gary Beluzo? What say ye about this? Those restored pseudo semi old >> > growth forests won't be autopoietic? >> > >> > Joe >> > >> > > >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org Send email to [email protected] Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
