Lee
Thanks for weighing in on this topic. In the future, I'll be
cautious about accepting that explanation when I hear glaciation given
as defining the range for a species. I'm embarrassed to admit that
I've often repeated the glaciation explanation for cucumber magnolia's
absence from part of New York.
Bob
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 3, 2009, at 3:06 PM, Lee Frelich <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Bob:
>
> I am always amazed that people attribute ranges of various trees or
> other organisms to glaciation. It seems unlikely that a glacier that
> existed 14,000 years ago can control the range limit of species today,
> especially for trees that can grow in a wide variety of soil types. I
> have been told the same about native earthworms--that they only
> occur in
> unglaciated areas, but in WI they occur only in the glaciated part and
> not in the unglaciated part of the state. There is always a
> possibility
> that a species could grow on either side of the glacial boundary by
> chance. There are also areas where the glacier scraped the soil away
> down to bare rock, which does have an influence on what grows there,
> but
> this effect does not occur at the scale of tree species ranges.
>
> Lee
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>> Kirk,
>>
>> Yes, I see the distribution goes fairly far north. Those distribution
>> maps existed at the time I was told about the limited range factor.
>> I'm now puzzled. The ecologist who told me about the glacial boundary
>> is well respected. I wonder what he knew that we don't.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kirk Johnson" <[email protected]>
>> To: [email protected]
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2009 12:16:59 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada
>> Eastern
>> Subject: [ENTS] Re: King Pennisula, Allegheny River, Forest County,
>> PA
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> I don't remember hearing that before, so I don't know if it's true.
>> However, the attached distribution map I found online seems to
>> indicate otherwise (showing range into NYS all the way to Lake
>> Ontario).
>>
>> On the other hand, the Allegheny NF & environs does seem to be a good
>> home for cucumber magnolia anecdotally speaking. There are a lot of
>> them here and some of them are large, so they seem to like it here.
>> (They are one of my favorites.)
>>
>> Kirk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Kirk,
>>
>> I was once told by a forest ecologist from Vermont that the
>> cucumber magnolia appears south of the glaciated zone in western
>> NY-PA, but not in it. I presume there isn't a sharp line of
>> demarcation, but practically so. Is this explanation for the
>> distribution of cucumber magnolia still in vogue?
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kirk Johnson" <[email protected]>
>> To: [email protected]
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2009 11:32:59 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada
>> Eastern
>> Subject: [ENTS] Re: King Pennisula, Allegheny River, Forest
>> County, PA
>>
>> Bob,
>>
>> That is true. To the west of the Allegheny River and to the east
>> of the Big Level was glaciated. But what is today Allegany State
>> Park in NY and the Allegheny NF was not glaciated.
>>
>> Kirk Johnson
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Ed,
>>
>> I am jealous. The Connecticut River corridor has some fine
>> trees, but the Allegheny River has sycamores and silver
>> maples that exceed any I've found along the Connecticut.
>> If I remember correctly, the area of the Allegheny in PA
>> wasn't glaciated. Is that correct?
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>
> >
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