Bob: The 10,000 acres figure for parks would be correct if you count the high density core of the Metro Area, aka "inner city" only.
Lee [email protected] wrote: > Lee, > > Wow, 70,000 acres of parks in Minneapolis is amazing! I had no idea > the city had that much. I don't know what I thought the acreage is - > perhaps 10,000. > > Bob > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lee Frelich" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 9:21:57 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [ENTS] Observing nature... > > Bob: > > Judging from the article about a single tree in Cambridge (which Harvard > was going to cut down because it was judged a hazard tree) that appeared > in The Boston Globe on the same page as the article about my earthworm > research two years ago, I would say people in Boston take trees pretty > seriously. > > Did I mention that in the Minneapolis Metro Area we have at least > 70,000+ acres of parks, including three state parks and several regional > parks that are 2,000-5,000 acres in size? This includes about 20 miles > of Mississippi River frontage, 20 miles on the Minnesota River and 10s > of miles of frontage on smaller rivers, 500 lakes greater than 10 acres > in size (not counted in the acreage total), at least six natural areas > (3 with unlogged sugar maple, oak and basswood forest, 2 with unlogged > white pine forest, and 2 with prairie and savanna), and units like the > 2600 acre Louisville Swamp, part of a national wildlife refuge, with > large tracts of savanna, marsh, heron rookeries, dwarf oak forest and > giant cottonwood forest. There is also the 900 acre Minnesota Landscape > Arboretum which has a vast collection of garden plants that will grow in > our climate as well as trees from around the world, arranged by taxa > around a 3-mile loop. The parking lots of these places are usually full > on weekends, but they are big enough that they don't feel crowded while > hiking. > > Lee > > [email protected] wrote: > > Lee, > > > > You've spoken convincingly about the Minneapolis citizenry's > > appreciation for their trees and I am impressed by the demonstrations > > of tree awareness. Maybe I judge the people I saw yesterday in the > > Arboretum too seriously. It wouldn't be the first time I've done that > > where tree awareness is concerned. > > > > Bob > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Lee Frelich" <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 9:57:20 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > > Subject: Re: [ENTS] Observing nature... > > > > Bob: > > > > Next time you are in Wisconsin, lets visit Concrete County Park. They > > have hundreds of concrete animals--elephants, lions, deer, bear, > > giraffes, etc., and a few concrete trees. They were made by an eccentric > > man whose yard was made into a park after he died. No chance that they > > will bite you either, although the local deer ticks an Lyme disease are > > a concern. These concrete animals and trees in the park were the only > > things left standing for miles in any direction after the great blowdown > > of July 4th, 1977, which took out a swath of forest 15 miles wide by 150 > > miles long with winds as high as 157 miles per hour--another one of our > > Midwestern thunderstorms that are the eighth wonder of the world. > > > > Regarding trees, people jog right by the trees in Minneapolis too. But > > if the city puts a dot of paint on one (various colors indicate > > different diseases or problems with the tree, and that it might have to > > be cut down), you should hear the calls that come in accusing the > > forestry department of being tree killers. Whenever a tree is marked in > > my neighborhood, or on campus, I get phone calls and e-mails about it, > > but have become expert at redirecting peoples anger to the appropriate > > department. Recent cases include a 20 foot tall white pine that was cut > > down to install some underground utilities (this was announced a week in > > advance, but that didn't help assuage the woman whose office window > > looks out on the tree, which was the preferred perch for goldfinches and > > purple finches), a green ash on campus that had emerald ash borer, and > > several half dead trees on the greenway that are overtopped by other > > trees because they were planted too close together. > > > > Lee > > > > Bob wrote: > > > Jenny > > > > > > I have much the same reaction wherever I go in urban parks. > > > People are so unattuned to the natural world. The natural features > > > might as well he replaced by concrete replicas. Even when there are > > > big trees, I find myself mumbling under my breath. Can't wait to get > > > out of Boston. > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > On Nov 29, 2009, at 3:18 AM, [email protected] > > > <mailto:[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> Bob, Steve, Jess, Ed, > > >> > > >> Bob, welcome to my hell!!!! I have thought about these things so so > > >> much while scouring the NYC parks to bond with the bit of nature on > > >> offer. > > >> > > >> My reactions to people I encounter in these situations are pretty > > >> much unfair and judgmental!! > > >> > > >> I don't understand people who study birds yet don't also take note of > > >> the tree or other perching/habitat environment. But I have 'issues' > > >> in general with "birders" mostly based on the lack of interest they > > >> have in the birds themselves. Many are just list keepers, collectors, > > >> like you were saying. I understand but I don't like it. On my > > >> Colorado night migration workshop in September I was the only one > > >> excited about the whole ecological experience as opposed to just the > > >> birds. Weird. > > >> > > >> I can't believe people don't teach their kids general respect for > > >> nature. Kids kick trees and try to kick birds - and I completely > > >> understand them for doing it - but I don't understand their parents > > >> for not stopping them. When I say something I talk directly to the > > >> kid and say things in the nicest possible way, hopefully with humor. > > >> And in that way, maybe a tiny bit of awareness will sink in. > > >> > > >> I know birds and trees are not human, but I could never treat them as > > >> unfeeling beings - even the tree in its way, is sentient. > > >> > > >> I hate the Fordham students jogging through NYBG and I would hate > > >> anyone jogging in the Arnold Arboretum. Exceptions are people running > > >> with their big dogs who need a good run. But honestly, why not just > > >> take a a strenuous hike? I bet they drove to the Arboretum anyway, > > >> > > >> As for them appreciating their surroundings by going to the Arboretum > > >> to jog, I think they sure do appreciate the environment for > > >> themselves but don't give a "care" about anybody elses' experience. > > >> There are more than enough municipal parks for jogging. I think it's > > >> offensive. When people jog through the NYBG forest, I think it's > > >> really unnecessary and a little insulting to people that have paid to > > >> enjoy the experience. Especially since the Bronx River Park is just > > >> across the blvd. > > >> > > >> Fair or unfair, there you have it. It's the obliviousness of people > > >> that absolutely torments me. Makes for some damn long unhappy days in > > >> NYC, but I do my best.... > > >> > > >> Jenny > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Jess Riddle <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > >> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > >> Sent: Sat, Nov 28, 2009 11:59 pm > > >> Subject: Re: [ENTS] Observing nature... > > >> > > >> Steve, > > >> > > >> Interesting question. I don't know enough relevant information to > > >> make come up with a good answer, but I'm not going to let that > keep me > > >> from speculating. > > >> > > >> Eyeballs help make an entity cute. Humans have many body parts in > > >> common with other vertebrates, so its natural to anthropomorphize > > >> animals. Anthropomorphizing could lead to an emotional connection. > > >> Plants are more difficult to identify with, and hence less commonly > > >> cared about. > > >> > > >> For motile animals, natural selection favors individuals that > that pay > > >> attention to movement in their environment. Hence, moving birds > > >> naturally become the focus of human attention, while no analogous > > >> process exists to draw our attention to an individual tree. > > >> > > >> I enjoy finding things: fossils, rare plants, and of course big > trees. > > >> I don't know how universally people enjoy searching (although Waldo > > >> suggests I'm not alone), but birds seem like a convenient goal for > > >> those who like searching. Birds exhibit patterns of behaviour > > >> allowing the development of search strategies, and the birds present > > >> at a given site changes daily. Once found, the behaviour can become > > >> the focus of attention, which is not possible with plants (with a few > > >> notable exceptions like carnivorous plants). > > >> > > >> Bob, > > >> > > >> All those people frustrating you could have chosen to walk at a > track, > > >> in a mall, or on a treadmill. However, they made the conscious > > >> decision to go to the arboretum. That decision suggests to me > that on > > >> some level they do appreciate their surroundings. > > >> > > >> Jess > > >> > > >> On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 10:58 PM, Steve Galehouse > > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > >> > ENTS- > > >> > > > >> > Today my oldest son and I returned to the Cuyahoga Valley to > > investigate > > >> > some sites for potential reports. We didn't spend much time > > measuring, > > >> > rather just hiked to explore unfamiliar areas(did measure a white > > ash to > > >> > 132', and a sycamore to 13' 10'' cbh and 113'). The neatest > thing we > > >> > observed was a snowy owl, perched in a tree in an area of larger > > trees. It's > > >> > very unusual for one to be in Ohio, but my trusty Peterson's > > guide says it > > >> > can happen---which brings me to the primary question of this > > post: Why are > > >> > more people, generally, interested in birding than observing and > > measuring > > >> > trees? I think we all can attest that on a trail we would more > likely > > >> > encounter a birder with a $800-$1200 Zeiss binocular around the > > neck than a > > >> > tree measurer with a $200 Nikon rangefinder and $100 > > inclinometer. I'm in no > > >> > way anti-birding, but knowing the woods seems so much more > > basic--the types > > >> > of trees determine the species of birds and mammals present. The > > >> > avian-centric position seems to be expressed in the promotional > > literature > > >> > of park systems also, where rare or unusual species of birds > > present are > > >> > stressed, without mention of the forest community that attracted > > them. And > > >> > Jenny, this in no way is meant to disparage your rescue efforts > > in NYC. > > >> > > > >> > Steve > > >> > > > >> > -- > > >> > Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org > > >> > Send email to [email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > >> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > > >> > To unsubscribe send email to > > [email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org > > >> Send email to [email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > > >> To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > >> -- > > >> Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org > > >> Send email to [email protected] > > >> <mailto:[email protected]> > > >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > > >> To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] > > >> <mailto:[email protected]> > > > -- > > > Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org > > > Send email to [email protected] > > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > > > To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] > > > > -- > > Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org > > Send email to [email protected] > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > > To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] > > -- > > Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org > > Send email to [email protected] > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > > To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] > > -- > Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org > Send email to [email protected] > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] > -- > Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org > Send email to [email protected] > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] -- Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org Send email to [email protected] Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en To unsubscribe send email to [email protected]
