Gaines, The longest internode we saw at the Cliff Creek site was 55", and I believe we saw two consecutive internodes up to nine feet. Those internodes were certainly formed during wet years, but we were not specifically searching for long internodes either. The pines may be older than 75 years, but I would be surprised if they are over 100. The top of one of the tallest pines was bent at about 45 degrees, so its annual upward growth is likely well under a foot. However, some of the slightly less tall pines were still well formed. The site has an unusual combination of level terrain in the immediate vicinity of the trees, but steep sheltering terrain close enough to shade the flat. The site was also unusual for the juxtaposition of white pine, and in general conifer dominance, with calciophilic species like paw paw.
Your approach to the question of maximum pine heights has been very interesting to me. To me, the information emphasizes how the current growth rate of a tree is influenced by its current height. On the best sites the white pines may not be growing especially well for their age, but they are still growing well for their height. I also wonder how the site influences the relationship between current height and growth rate. Moisture and nutrient supply, especially calcium, might enhance water supply to the tops of trees and help maintain growth rates to greater heights. I wish I had more time to discuss this topic. Jess On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Gaines McMartin <[email protected]> wrote: > Will: > > Nodes 50 inches apart are not that uncommon. I have seen that even > on my trees, but not often. White pine trees for a period of a few > years can commonly average over 3 feet per year. But by age 25 or so > the growth rate begins to decline. To get even 140 feet in 50 years, > the AVERAGE for the entire period would have to be about 3 feet, > considering it takes several years for the growth to get up to the > max. I have some trees that have averaged three feet or a bit more, > for periods of 8 to 12 years, and my site index here is only 95 feet. > I have seen some trees when they are over 40 years old put out a > really spectacular growth shoot. But that will happen in an odd > year--the same tree may grow only 18 inches the next year. I am > talking about averages--sustained growth. > > Now if you have seen a white pine tree with 50 inch internodes each > year, or as an an average for a period of 12 years or so, then > anything may be possible! Now that is something I have never heard of. > > One thing you should be aware of--sometimes a white pine may seem > to have an internode of 6 or 7 feet. I have one such tree. But that > is a mistake--what happens, very rarely, but it happens, is that the > whorl of branches for one year can be stripped by bird perch, leaving > what seems to be one spectacular internode. > > In the Norway spruce topic I mentioned the very unusual growth > curves for NS. SUNY Syracuse determined that after the trees reach > 4.5 feet tall, the crowth curve for over 50 years is absolutely flat. > That is very unusual. Most trees, even tuliptree, have a period of > very fast growth when they are very young, but at some point well > before 50 years the growth curve begins to bend. So it is with white > pine. > > And, as I pointed out earlier,the point of the topic I created, the > faster the juvenile growth rate, the faster the decline in that growth > rate so that after 55 years it is no faster than white pines growing > on very ordinary sites. > > --Gaines > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > On 1/11/10, Will Blozan <[email protected]> wrote: >> Gaines, >> >> >> >> As for the age, I'll let Jess weigh in on that one. They are very strikingly >> young with growth internodes around 50" on fallen trees if I remember >> correctly. Jess? >> >> >> >> As for not fitting current models of growth- that's what ENTS is all about! >> Bring the truth and refute the standard. >> >> >> >> I'd send some photos but they have disappeared with my stolen laptop. >> >> >> >> Will F. Blozan >> >> President, Eastern Native Tree Society >> >> President, Appalachian Arborists, Inc. >> >> >> >> "No sympathy for apathy" >> >> >
