It's simpler than we might suppose Nom. There are a number of cash systems in which to lose money - the hawala systems - various names - 'ching' around Hongkong. I put cash in here and can collect (less commission) more or less anywhere. In the banks I might put the money in here, send it to Cayman and from there New York - the banks are bent on such transfers and someone in NY would recode the Cayman money before sending it to you. One technique is to starburst cash to hundreds of points. Somewhere the stuff has to go through a blocked point that can send the cops a 'none of your business' ticket due to jurisdiction failure. I might buy US property (your estate agents are not subject to money-laundering legislation) and hen borrow on that property. I might even set up a false legal claim against you, pay the fees and call off the case, recollecting the cash from the bent lawyers. You might buy a load of gizmos from me, but I buy with bent money, ship to you and then collect the cash you raise - all less commissions of course. Simple smuggling is still very common. People with Swiss bank accounts are now running scared. They take out the cash in Zurich and get it smuggled back to them as gold through the drug-running monetary system. I doubt you or I would trust druggies to carry $50 dollars of our money - which rather suggests these rich are in league with organised crime - otherwise no trust to do this stuff.
I could crack any of these schemes as a cop - much as we used to use test purchase scams to catch drug-dealers - but most of them are legal or 'protected'. In a typical transfer pricing scam we send our profits abroad where all the money is "lost" in non-existent management costs - the cash stays offshore but we claim a tax loss here (UK or US). This is theft. Given the use of offshore like this is claimed to reduce costs I doubt any jury would not convict for theft - but no judge would let them hear the real story - the management would claim to operate in Delaware. McKinsey just estimated $32 trillion are held in this system. I suspect secret services know about all of it and have a vested interest in not exposing it via criminal trials. This may be about to change as they erase the tracks to their involvement. On shorting I also suspect the simple explanation it is done through insider knowledge rather than the claimed alpha intelligence. On Apr 4, 3:47 pm, nominal9 <[email protected]> wrote: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_%28finance%29 > I basically get the notion of "selling short"......but, there too, there is > a paper trail (identity of scam and scammers). Ultimately, it gets to a > question of an outside "third party" being asked to pay the > difference.....that's the scam....(you know that as well as [better] than > I).....If "some" folks care to gamble... they should do it with their own > money.... or shares....and pay their own difference... or be "punished" if > they renege....I mean, that's the "ideal" form of the deal, isn't it?.... > Banks or money reservoirs should be regulated to that effect....Where's the > "flaw" in the "ideal", I ask you? > > > > > > > > On Thursday, April 4, 2013 10:17:49 AM UTC-4, nominal9 wrote: > > > I like your scam scenario explanation.... it sounds "verisimilar" (one of > > those big words I like to show off with every now and then... heck, if I > > had to learn it, I might as well use it, right?). > > > You know that I am "specific naive" when it comes to financial terms and > > "instruments"... but can you explain to me why it is that the actual > > "thieves" and scammers get (identity) lost in the "shell game", doesn't > > each piece of debt paper or transaction (is supposed to) have a name on it? > > > On Wednesday, April 3, 2013 5:20:17 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote: > > >> That's about the half of it Nom. We might know more about how Cyprus > >> was looted by the end of next week and who is really paying. I > >> predict the hot money will turn out to have gone in the months before, > >> the take over of Cyprus banks in Greece (done in all haste preventing > >> due diligence before the crash and leaving bad Greek debt in Cyprus) > >> may prove to have been an unload of RHD by foreign banks. British > >> banks have unloaded half their exposure to Greece in the last three > >> years - raising questions about who bought the magic beans and at what > >> price (if they had to sell low - I guess hey must as you and I would > >> have been smart enough not to buy the RHD - then where are the write- > >> offs) and whether any investment packages they were in were sold > >> honestly. I'm inclined to think Cyprus is no accident and the > >> banksters may be able to manipulate such crashes. Whilst w wouldn't > >> buy the magic beans from each other (scared of giants as we are), I > >> suspect the deal runs more like this: > > >> Neil: Nom - I have an offer you can't refuse. > >> Nom. Screw you limey. > >> Neil. Peace brother, we'll both make a killing. Switch to the > >> scambler (no typo) phone. Buy as much eu periphery rocking horse shit > >> as you can find. You should get it at 10 cents on the dollar. I'll > >> give you 80 for it all. > >> Nom. Good deal for me, what's your cut? > >> Neil. We'll go 50:50 on the net after we pay off Pedro. > >> Nom. What's Pedro got to do with this? > >> Neil. He runs the Spanish bank buying the rocking horse shit. When > >> Spain goes down the toilet holding all the losses he'll throw in the > >> incompetence joker while we sort him with a new identity and a sack of > >> cash to soothe his conscience over the small matter of bankrupting his > >> fellow countrymen. > >> Nom. I love these crimes where no one gets hurt. How much will the EU > >> and depositor bail in be on this one? > >> Neil. $250 billion. We'll go short on Spain. Italy, Luxembourg and > >> the Netherlands to pick up on the death-throes of the EU > > >> The actual fraud network will be a bit more complex and our secret > >> services will be involved. Do you know where Dr. No's island is? > > >> On Mar 27, 5:28 pm, nominal9 <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21948429 > > >> > Major UK banks must raise a total of £25bn in extra capital by the end > >> of > >> > 2013 to guard against potential losses, the Bank of England (BoE) has > >> said. > > >> > In a statement< > >>http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Pages/news/2013/013.aspx>, > >> > the BoE's Financial Policy Committee (FPC) said only some banks need to > >> > raise the cash, but did not name them. > > >> > It said banks could face losses of about £50bn over the next three > >> years, > >> > relating to bad loans and fines. > > >> > The order is the first from the FPC, the new financial stability > >> regulator. > > >> > It said UK banks and building societies could lose billions of pounds > >> over > >> > the next three years relating to "high-risk" loans in the UK commercial > >> > property sector and vulnerable eurozone economies. > > >> > They may also lose money through fines, and require extra capital to > >> > support a "more prudent approach to risk". > > >> > Some banks already have enough capital to cover these costs, the FPC > >> said, > >> > but others are short. > > >> > Yet more money may need to be raised after the end of 2013, the FPC > >> warned, > >> > so that banks conform to incoming "Basel III" accords on banking > >> regulation. > >> > Shares mixed > > >> > No new government money will be required. Banks are likely to raise the > >> > funds by issuing more bonds or selling shares. > > >> > But BBC business editor Robert Peston says in the short term the need > >> to > >> > raise cash will be bad news for investors, including taxpayers who > >> still > >> > own big stakes in two banks - Royal Bank of Scotland and Lloyds. > > >> > If these banks are among those that need to raise more capital, it may > >> > delay plans to sell the stakes back to private investors. > > >> > In a statement RBS insisted it had "a strong capital position". > > >> > "We will continue to work with our regulators to ensure RBS remains at > >> the > >> > forefront of international capital standards," it said. > > >> > However, by midday RBS shares were down 3%. > > >> > Other bank shares reflected a mixed response to the FPC's announcement. > >> > Shares in Lloyds were up more than 1.6%, while HSBC and Barclays were > >> both > >> > down by about 0.5%. > > >> > The British Bankers' Association, the banking trade body, described the > >> > FPC's report as "the latest step in an ongoing discussion between the > >> UK's > >> > banks and their regulators" about the levels of capital they should be > >> > holding. > > >> > It said raising capital levels needed to be done in such a way as to > >> > support growth. > >> > Sustaining lending > > >> > The FPC said capital raising measures were also designed to ensure that > >> > banks were able to continue lending to businesses and each other, > >> should > >> > another banking crisis hit. > > >> > The extra capital was needed "to ensure sufficient capacity to absorb > >> > losses and sustain lending", the FPC said. > > >> > The FPC has overall responsibility for financial regulation in the UK > >> and > >> > is part of a new order of regulation designed to keep the banks under > >> > closer scrutiny. > > >> > It will oversee two new financial watchdogs: the Prudential Regulation > >> > Authority (PRA), which will take over responsibility for supervising > >> the > >> > safety and soundness of individual financial firms, and the Financial > >> > Conduct Authority (FCA), which will be tasked with protecting consumers > >> and > >> > making sure that workers in the financial services sector comply with > >> rules. > > >> > The new watchdogs will replace the Financial Services Authority (FSA), > >> > which is set to close next week. > > >> > On Tuesday, March 26, 2013 11:18:57 AM UTC-4, nominal9 wrote: > > >> > > Bail-Ins instead of Bail-Outs....there you go.... > > >> > > somebody's finally thinking.... contrary logic.... > > >> > > HAR HAR HAR HAR. > > >> > > I like it.... > > >> > > the U.S. should go back and "bail in" the Wall Street banks and > >> trading > >> > > firms..... > > >> > >http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/26/eurozone-banks-bailouts-idU... > > >> > > Cyprus rescue marks "game-changer" for Europe's banks > > >> > > - > >> > > - inShare > >> > > - Share this > >> > > - > >> > > - Email > >> > > - Print > > >> > > Related News > > >> > > - Global shares, euro checked by Cyprus bailout nerves< > >>http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/26/us-markets-global-idUSBRE88...> > > >> > > 9:17am EDT > >> > > - WRAPUP 10-Cyprus leader hails bailout, but banks stay closed< > >>http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/25/eurozone-cyprus-idUSL5N0CH0...> > > >> > > Mon, Mar 25 2013 > >> > > - Shares, euro retreat as Cyprus deal stirs unease< > >>http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/25/us-markets-global-idUSBRE88...> > > >> > > Mon, Mar 25 2013 > >> > > - Analysis: Cyprus rescue raises new questions about euro's > >> long-term > >> > > survival< > >>http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/25/us-eurozone-cyprus-contagio...> > > >> > > Mon, Mar 25 2013 > >> > > - Cyprus and EU agree draft proposal to rescue banks< > >>http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/24/us-cyprus-parliament-idUSBR...> > > >> > > Sun, Mar 24 2013 > > >> > > Analysis & Opinion > > >> > > - One-off or precedent?< > >>http://blogs.reuters.com/macroscope/2013/03/26/one-off-or-precedent/> > >> > > - The Dijsselbloem Principle< > >>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2013/03/25/the-dijsselbloem-pri...> > > >> > > Related Topics > > >> > > - Investing and Taxes Simplified »< > >>http://www.reuters.com/subjects/investing-simplified> > >> > > - Financials » <http://www.reuters.com/sectors/financials> > > >> > > By Steve Slater > > >> > > LONDON, March 26 | Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:13am EDT > > >> > > (Reuters) - If the bailout of Cyprus is a template for European > >> rescue > >> > > deals it marks a "game-changer" for banks that > > ... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Epistemology" group. 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