>From a pragmatic perspective, it seems to that the critical goal behind all of this, is what will bring a better development environment for the future of the web, and the key to this is what will be broadly implemented. The choice of the name is of course around this central issue since the ES title brings such a strong motivitation for implementation. However, if ~10 years down the road, ES4 is not implemented broadly enough that web developers can code to it, than it is of signficantly less value. While unanimity is not needed for a standard to be passed, if the one of the key browser vendors will not implement it, than how valuable are our efforts? I know that there are, or will be efforts to provide a Tamarin plugin for other browsers, but is this really what we are pinning our hope on? Plugins usually don't reach necessary distribution for developers to rely on them. Or are we hoping that the ES4 title will be sufficient to get an implementation from every vendor? I certainly acknowledge that it is insidious that there might a suggestion to design around one member, but I will still ask, is there any concessions that can be made to increase the probability that MS would implement ES4 in the future? Perhaps this has already been discussed, so I apologize if it has. Does MS have specific issues, or is their dissent simply for the purpose of avoiding committing to implementation (regardless of the content of ES4)? Is security one of the main issues? Is it the size and scope of the language? From what I understand, I think these are Crockford's concerns, although I don't know if that is true for MS. I think that if even 25% subset of ES4 was uniformly implemented in all browsers in 10 years, web developers would be vastly further along than if the 100% of ES4 was implemented in half the browsers. While unfortunate that such orthogonal issues could affect language design, and perhaps stifle innovation, I would like to see what will be best for the future of the web. Does anybody know if there is anything that can be done to increase the likelood of full cross browser implementation of ES4? Does anyone know the issues or parts of ES4 that are causing dissent? Is it the impact of the size of the language (on security, implementability, etc)? Apologies for my excessive pragmatism, Kris
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