Citát Nicolas Roard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> On 5/24/05, Jesse Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

<snip>

> > 
> > 
> > And what it seems like you're suggesting is almost exactly what Squeak is:
> > an image that runs on a platform specific VM:
> > http://www.squeak.org/features/vm.html
> 
> Which is kinda a problem-- it seems to me that we want something that
> is very close to smalltalk ;-) -- then the question is, why are we
> working on Étoilé instead of taking Squeak ?
> 

This has been wandering through my mind for quite a bit of time... I want an
environment which is object based - almost everything is an object I can
handle, play with, clone, destroy, change, ... But what can be used to create
such environment? Some Smalltalk? Squeak? Self? Objective-C? Java? New one? It
can be done in any, I think. They have advantages and disadvantages.

Then I realised, that the best one would be the one that:
- is objective enough
- can reuse existing tools, libraries, components easily
- can easily and immediately cooperate with other environments
- is fast
- others that I do not remember right now

For Smalltalk and Squeak you have to create "bridges" or "adaptors" for
libraries - that is a big barrier. Also, there is too large paradigm shift in
Smalltak/Squeak, that other users might not understand it. Java is not so
objective enough. Self is experiment only. Objective C has no persistent store
and does not have the feel of single environment.

Try to use this "energic view". You have limited energy resources (developers,
time, money, ...) Therefore you have to try to spend as little energy as
possible to achieve your goal.

As development resources are very rare, you have to reuse to survive. 
There are plenty of actively developed Objective C libraries. You can get them
and benefit from them as they will provide you objects you can not create at
this moment, because you do not have enough energy. Also it is fast, as it is
compiled. Java has also plenty of libraries around. Smalltalk and Squeak
library base is not so mature, not even like AppKit.

Also, it is easier for developers to pick-up Objective C than Smalltalk. Why?
Different way of thinking they are used to. I have seen C developers writing C
like code in Smalltalk, similar as I have seen C++ developers writing C++ like
style in PL/SQL. Knowing the language is not enough.

There are many OO environments, each of them has it's advantages and
disadvantages. What should be used? The one which is the most adaptable and
costs minimum energy compared to the others. I have mentioned it in my other
post to this thread: If I can have an illusion with very little costs, I can
live with it as far as I will get my work done in the way I would like.

Try to create your energy comparison table, perhaps you will get differet
results that I did in my mind...

Stefan Urbanek
--
http://stefan.agentfarms.net

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then
you win.
- Mahatma Gandhi

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