There have also been discussions about V2G and the individual owners bidding. If you pay me x amount you can use y kWh but no more . This will need starter phones and grid(s)
-------- Original message -------- From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[email protected]> Date:12/31/2013 12:05 PM (GMT-05:00) To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: V2G project pays plugin owners for eating their pack cycle-life This is why I posted these three topic-related items today: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-V2G-project-pays-plugin-owners-for-eating-their-pack-cycle-life-tp4667015.html http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Nissan-EVs-used-for-AC-Grid-Energy-Storage-tp4667014.html http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-CalISO-wants-to-make-EVs-part-of-the-California-power-grid-tp4667012.html In previous V2G newswire posts, it was seen that automakers have shown they can do V2G, touting it as plugins are a good thing to have around. I am going to go out on a limb and think that the EV-hating/pih&fcv loving automakers would counter the V2G benefits of EVs with enabling their pih or fcvs to run the ice or fc draining the chemical fuel to supply power to the ISO. In the third link above, now an electric power provider (ISO) see profit$ if V2G is put in place. I am going to make some assumptions before I go on: -EVSE will need to be changed so that it is V2G compatible. (Who is going to pay for that? The ISO?) -drivers 'only' get paid 'if' their pack is used, but drivers will not be told how deeply the pack was cycled, and how often -a 6kW EVSE can charge and discharge a plugin at the same rate (i.e.: a Volt pih with a half-powered on-board charger will only be able to charge or be discharged at a 3kW rate, with the kw limitation being the vehicle's wiring design -Leaf EV ~20kW pack type plugins will be used in ISO's payment calculations as there will be more of the lower priced plugins that the more expensive and higher capacity pack plugins (same as there are more pawns on a chessboard, and less of the more powerful pieces) For the benefit of the non-EV driving readership that are likely more familiar with their ice, a plugin driver letting their pack be used like this, would be like an ice driver letting their car be driven by someone else, adding to the vehicle's mileage. We all know an ice with high mileage on the odometer brings down its resale value. In a similar way, the capacity of a pack tells the knowledgeable plugin driver how old/used the pack is (a ~20kWh pack new, now has 15kWh of capacity, that pack has seen some use and or abuse: many charges, hot weather, etc.). There are companies that arrange for a driver (plugin or not) to get paid to let others use their vehicle https://www.citycarshare.org/ http://www.getaround.com/ http://www.spride.com/ https://relayrides.com/list-your-car https://flightcar.com/ Compensation for someone using your ice (adding miles) would have to be a quantifiable/measurable figure (so many miles = so much $ being paid). Perhaps a payment calculation model would be derived from their business model that would be applicable to plugin having their packs additionally used and prematurely aging the pack. How the ISO will pay is unstated, but it should be based on the number of times the pack was discharged and how deeply. And lastly, a new interface item will be needed to be made available from a plugin's infotainment system or accessible via an app: -the driver's ability to decide how low the ISO can discharge their pack. If a driver only need 25 miles to get home, they could select 30 miles as the minimum the pack would be discharged. Or if at that moment, their day made reactive demands that meant that their plugin 'had-to' always be at maximum SOC, then the driver would select "0" miles, which would let them opt-out of the V2G program. With the default setting 'must-be' set at "0" participation. Ex: if you knew you 'had-to' be at a customer's location that day, or your wife was expecting, and you wanted to be always available, etc. Other views/ideas/comments on this encouraged. {brucedp.150m.com} - On Tue, Dec 31, 2013, at 07:43 AM, Peri Hartman wrote: > There's been a number of times this topic - using EVs to buffer the grid > but a fundamental question keeps lurking in my mind. > > With our current technology, each charge-discharge cycle takes a nibble > of > battery life away. Without some sort of compensation to the EV owner, I > don't see him agreeing to helping the grid. > > In the experiments, such as the one in this post, is EV owner being > compensated in a way that makes up for battery life losses? This article > does mention paying the customers when drawing power, but I'm making the > assumption that they are being billed for the reverse. - -- http://www.fastmail.fm - A fast, anti-spam email service. _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20131231/acf8361e/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
