Mark Abramowitz,
I finally did what I should have done when I heard you avoid
the real topics about Hydrogen: I looked up your profile, because
somehow your name sounded familiar from earlier discussions about
this topic.

You are board member of SCAQMD 
(Board Consultant to Governor's Appointee, Dr. Joseph K. Lyou)
and at the same time you are the president of the....
>>> California Hydrogen Business Council <<<

That clarifies a lot. Their own words:
" Our members implement and use technology and services that are taking
the hydrogen economy into the mainstream.Our goals are to:
* Promote growth of the hydrogen business economy
* Provide hydrogen business information
* Create a forum that facilitates strategic alliances
* Encourage customers to adopt hydrogen products in their businesses
* Provide access to regulatory bodies
* Assist members with education and information"

Nowhere does it indicate that you should make sure that Hydrogen is
a viable solution, you are simply pushing it at any cost and if the
future is doomed because Hydrogen is worse than what we have today
then that is no concern.
Thank you, I have had enough. Can I get off this train? I'm sick.

Oh, by the way, just in case you did not get it:
David Roden asked you your involvement with this subject.
You never mentioned that you are president of the Californian
organisation promoting Hydrogen. I call that a lie.

I see that you have a BA from UCLA in Ecosystems.
So, I take it that you *do* understand Physics and that you were active
here on the EVDL to try to gain traction for Hydrogen and cover up
your background, hoping that we would not find out why you avoid some
subjects and continue to make unsustainable claims.

It is clear now, unfortunately that has always been the case in the
Hydrogen "business model" because the Physics do not work out, so
the truth must not be known or understood.
Unfortunately you met the wrong crowd here.


Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation
Email: Private:
Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626

-----Original Message-----
From: EV [] On Behalf Of Cor van de
Water via EV
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 5:21 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Hydrogen/EV thoughts (EV emissions)

> Yes, an energy carrier. I won't argue efficiency with you.

But that is the biggest problem of Hydrogen and the reason
that everyone who understands Physics draws the conclusion
that there is no future in Hydrogen as fuel because it is
worse than just using the source energy (that what is used
to generate the Hydrogen in the first place).
Converting to Hydrogen is just creating a loss and a headache.
(headache of containing and transporting this aggressive element)
So, except for a few niches, there is no place for Hydrogen.

Of course, in a world void of scientists and filled with people
who make vision papers based on someone else's fantasies,
there is only one bright future - everything will be converted
over to Hydrogen soon.

> Better hope that H2 is not a loser, because then we are all losers.

Hope has never changed the laws of Physics that I am aware of.

That is the reason that you get such a push-back on this list,
because there are plenty people here who do not have an "opinion"
about Hydrogen (opinions have also not changed Physics) but who
*understand* how efficiency work in terms of Physics and therefor
they can *calculate* that Hydrogen is a losing proposition.

It was a clear red flag when you avoided at all cost to discuss
the technical details or Physics, you are now even blatantly saying
that you do not want to discuss that topic.
Either you *know* that this is the biggest problem of FCV and you
prefer to avoid that subject, or you are truly unaware of the
hot air balloon that is being passed around and which will cost the
Californian taxpaers many millions of dollars without resuting in
anything that will actually help to improve clean air.
All the more troubling that you, 30 year clean air activist, 
are pursuing this non-option with so much vigor!!!

For the record - I have no vested interest in or outside Hydrogen.
I just have a BEV as daily driver and I am passionate about
energy efficiency, because the best way to clean up pollution
is to avoid creating it in the first place. And my background
allows me to understand laws of Physics, which often leads me to
clash with opinions that are based on anything but reality.

In case I came across as argumentative, please excuse me, I am
passionate about these subjects but I am always open to discuss
the data and the Physics of possible solutions to evaluate what
would be the best possible solution and which one does not fly.
I have heard too many fantasies about Hydrogen Fuel Cell that it
sometimes gets me on my soapbox.
If you do not want to discuss data or Physics of FCV then I will
take that you have a reason to hide the truth about Hydrogen's
dark side and possibly you have a vested interest - I have seen
those. But I have also seen Fuel Cell development councils that
cancel the meetings on Hydrogen Fuel Cell, because they saw the
light that it was just a hype, misleading governments worldwide
to try and generate grants without chance of ever producing an
energy efficient solution that would make a business case work.
I applaud people who are flexibel and transparent enough to take
new input and realize that they must change something, because
what they were doing was not good.

I, for one, hope that we can avoid strugging through H2 as loser
and immediately go for a viable option as future.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation
Email: Private:
Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626

For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 

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