The range is currently the issue which requires more quick charging stations. But this issue is going away now. More range is going to be on every BEV as the production methods improve for li-ion. Also packaging is getting whole lot better from current cells and packs (talking about active component packaging).
As Tesla paves the way and soon shows +100kWh packs we will learn more about our social behaviour. +150kWh pack is already something in a Model S -type car which opens the Pandora's box completely. My guess is people will charge with 1-3kW at home with solar (or similar zero CO2) but will be able to dump from the home pack if required (+20kW). On a road trip people stop by for quick charge as they stop for a rest. 100kWh takes already quite some time to transform to movement. -Jukka http://www.google.com/profiles/jarviju#about 2014-07-27 15:44 GMT+03:00 Mark Abramowitz via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>: > On Jul 27, 2014, at 12:49 AM, brucedp5 via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > % ? Setting the bar higher than what fcvs can do ? % > > > > [ref > > > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Tesla-CEO-Sez-A-More-Expensive-500mi-EV-could-be-quite-soon-tp4670504.html > > EVLN: Tesla CEO Sez A More Expensive 500mi EV 'could be quite soon' > > ] > > > > I thought why would Tesla make a 500 mi EV? Tesla is smart enough to > ignore > > the ignorant media's insanity for more and more range. I thought , there > has > > to be a business motivation for even mentioning it. > > I don't think that it's the "ignorant media's insanity for more and more > range." More like *the buyer's* demand for more range and faster charging > times, equivalent to an ICE. > > Range is one of the barriers to integrating EVs of all types into the > fleet. Even on this list, it's an issue. This was a similar issue for > FCEVs. Why do you think tank pressures increased? It certainly wasn't > cheaper. Or requirements for fueling times to get station co- funding? > Range and fueling time are two things that make the consumer think they > are getting something "less" when purchasing an EV of any type. Musk's > focus is laser-like here. > > > > > > A 500mi pack recharged at level-3 (L3) would reach its 80% point the > fastest > > before the charging current would need to be reduced/tapered. So, 80% of > > 500mi is 400mi. > > > > A quick 400mi recharge would let a Tesla EV grab the 7 CARB credits that > the > > Automakers and Big-Oil manipulated CARB to have for their fcvs. > > Credits is certainly part of it - this has made them money in the past. > > (FYI, there was no "manipulation" in setting the CARB numbers. And "Big > Oil" has little interest in FCEVs - have a look at the list of companies > that just received CEC funding for stations. Total number of "Big Oil" > companies that even applied .... zero) > > But this seems mostly about customer experience and buyer demand. > > > > > > > > <digress> A 300+ mile recharge in 15 minutes seems a guarantee to > continue > > that same ol' energy-wasting-addiction in the U.S.> there definitely > isn't > > any planet-saving going-on if everyone still has the ability to burn up > huge > > amounts of energy. > > </digress off> > > You may be right, but more people will buy them with more range. How much > range do you think is the "right" amount? > > > > > > > Increasing the kW capacity of a pack will increase its recharge time if > the > > charging rate stays the same. Since the recharge time has to be halved, > and > > the pack capacity doubled, it seems the electrical power needed to > recharge > > it will be four fold (4x as much). > > > > The amount of power required to recharge a 500mi EV to 80% (400mi > regained) > > in 15min is available at a Tesla Superstation already, if the 500mi EV > used > > several couplers at one time. > > > > > > Below are a couple of pages from a year ago discussing a charging a > Tesla in > > 5 minutes. > > > > > > [dated 2013] > > > http://insideevs.com/tesla-says-sub-10-minute-supercharging-is-possible-we-doubt-it/ > > Tesla Says Sub 10-Minute Supercharging is Possible > > Jul 19, 2013 by Eric Loveday > > > > Can a Tesla Model S be charged in 10 minutes? > > [image] Tesla’s Proposed by 2015 Supercharger Sites > > > > How about in 5 minutes? > > > > Tesla’s chief technology officer, JB Straubel,seems to think so, but > don’t > > count on it being a possibility anytime soon. > > > > In an exclusive Supercharger-related interview with MIT Technology > Review, > > Straubel stated: > > > > “It’s not going to happen in a year from now. It’s going to be hard. > But > > I think we can get down to five to 10 minutes.” > > > > Why then would one need battery swapping? You probably wouldn’t if a 5 > to > > 10-minute charge was possible. > > > > But it’s not. Maybe it is possible, but feasible? > > > > The current Supercharges out there deliver up to 120 kW. If Tesla scaled > > that up to charge a Model S in 10 minutes, then we’d be looking at > something > > like 720 kW. The heat generated while charging would be a major issue at > > 720 kW. To which Straubel says this: > > > > “To do that kind of charging, everything has to be designed and > working > > in perfect synchrony.” > > > > But perhaps the biggest hurdle to overcome at that rate would be the > sheer > > size and weight of the required charging cable. We’re looking at > something > > in the 1,500-volt and 480-amp range to carry those 720 kW. That cable > would > > be a monster and we see no way around this problem. > > > > In Tesla’s defense, Straubel says that the current 120-kW Supercharger > > “seemed pretty crazy even 10 years ago” when conventional chargers > delivered > > under 10kW. So, maybe this theoretical 720 kW Supercharger is > possible…in > > time. > > > > But what’s the work-around solution for the size and heft of the cable? > We > > don’t see one. Do you? > > [© insideevs.com] > > ... > > > http://www.technologyreview.com/news/516876/forget-battery-swapping-tesla-aims-to-charge-electric-cars-in-five-minutes/ > > Tesla Aims to Charge Electric Cars in Five Minutes > > By Kevin Bullis July 16, 2013 > > ... Straubel stated: “ I think we can get down to five to 10 minutes.” > > ... > > http://insideevs.com/carb-zev-program-changes-tesla-takes-largest-hit/ > > 300+ mi range & recharge in 15min = 7 credits > > > > > > > > Views, comments, corrections welcome :-) > > > > > > > > > > For all EVLN posts use: > > > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=evln&sort=date > > > > > > {brucedp.150m.com} > > > > > > > > -- > > View this message in context: > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Tesla-might-Supercharge-EVs-to-regain-400mi-in-15min-for-7-credits-tp4670575.html > > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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