Lee said: 'The cost of the materials in most consumer products is negligible. The price is dominated by advertising, labor, development, and profit. We're used to things like cellphones where the cost of materials is insignificant compared to these other costs."
That is a really good point I had not noticed before. Lee said: "Given our throw-away society, what do you think happens to the vast majority of them? They get thrown out -- NOT recycled. " My observation is that recycling is going much better than it was even 5 years ago. The presence of scrap yards that take in almost anything is greater. At home. The level of stuff in my recycling bin is easily double sometimes 4 times what is in my trash bin. Occasionally, there is no "trash" at all it is all recycled. If my wife did not insist on sending cat litter to the landfill it would be even better. I think recycling of Li ion batteries is limited because they are such a small part of the stream, and smaller cells are viewed as of little more importance than a stick of the same size. But I think the means and will is present more than you give credit for. BTW, I live in a pretty rural area where environmental concerns are not viewed as terribly high priority. Anyway, I am more hopeful than you are. On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Lee Hart via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: > >> I agree with what you are saying (though the numbers *will* change as >> people have to pay at charging stations), but by investing in cost >> reductions, I meant the cost of the battery to produce. >> > > Batteries are much harder to cost reduce than the usual consumer gadgets > we are used to. > > The cost of the materials in most consumer products is negligible. The > price is dominated by advertising, labor, development, and profit. We're > used to things like cellphones where the cost of materials is insignificant > compared to these other costs. > > It's different with batteries. They need a *lot* of material to get the > energy storage. The more pounds, the greater the energy storage. The > materials they use also tend to be expensive (high cost per pound). > > The only hope I see for "cheap" batteries is if we develop an effective > recycling infrastructure, so most of the cost can be recovered, and the > material reused to make new batteries. > > Lead-acid batteries are cheap in part because they are so heavily > recycled. There are laws that *require* recycling them. This helps to keep > the cost of lead down. But there are no such laws for nimh or lithium. > Given our throw-away society, what do you think happens to the vast > majority of them? They get thrown out -- NOT recycled. And given our > present political climate, what do you think the chances are of any laws to > require them to be recycled? I'd say nil. :-( > > -- > The greatest pleasure in life is to create something that wasn't > there before. -- Roy Spence > > -- > Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ > group/NEDRA) > > -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, "The summer day." To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk [email protected] <[email protected]> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141125/036ca23c/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
