The problem with compliance cars is they are made by companies that don't want to make them. If I'm going to buy a car, I'll only buy from a company whose heart is in it - not from a company that feels their arm is being twisted, and making them only to gain access to a market. Their priorities are all wrong, and not in my best interest.
Chris On May 6, 2015 1:09 PM, "Mark Abramowitz via EV" <[email protected]> wrote: > Presumably more choices will mean more cars. One size never fits all. > > My guess is that most ZEV owners (and many ICE owners) have a 2nd vehicle > that is not a ZEV unless their lifestyle, tastes and habits match their ZEV > perfectly. > > Compliance cars are frequently no less perfect for someone's needs than a > "real" car (as you refer to it). But frankly, *all* ZEVs are compliance > cars when it comes down to it. No ZEV mandate = No ZEVs. It took a lot of > work by many of us (including my lawsuit) to get any on the road. > > The only advantage of less ZEVs in Washington would be if it meant that, > due to limited production, more would be available for sale in California, > where the air quality makes it sorely needed. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On May 6, 2015, at 8:48 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > That's assuming that more choices == more sales. I don't know if that's > true or not for this market. There are plenty of EVs for sale in Wash. and > I certainly want to see their sales increase. Ideally speaking, I'd rather > see "real" cars rather than "compliance" cars. Just an emotional response. > > > > Peri > > > > ------ Original Message ------ > > From: "Mark Abramowitz via EV" <[email protected]> > > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> > > Sent: 06-May-15 7:31:55 AM > > Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: WA Loves Electric Cars, But Gets Very Few > > > >> I don't get this. > >> > >> Why on earth would anyone want any less ZEVs out there, no matter why > they are there? > >> > >> We need as many ZEVs out there as we can get, as quickly as possible. > >> > >> > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >>> On May 6, 2015, at 6:40 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> > >>> I was wondering about this. Glad you found the article, Bruce. > >>> > >>> Maybe it's just as well not to have a bunch of compliance cars on the > market, here. The "real" ones will come along as the EV market and > technology progresses. > >>> > >>> Peri > >>> > >>> ------ Original Message ------ > >>> From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[email protected]> > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Sent: 06-May-15 12:15:30 AM > >>> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: WA Loves Electric Cars, But Gets Very Few > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1098052_washington-state-loves-electric-cars-but-gets-very-few-heres-why > >>>> Washington State Loves Electric Cars, But Gets Very Few: Here's Why > >>>> By Stephen Edelstein Apr 29, 2015 ht2 Brian Henderson > >>>> > >>>> [images > >>>> > http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2014-chevrolet-spark-ev_100433719_m.jpg > >>>> 2014 Chevrolet Spark EV > >>>> > >>>> http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2014-fiat-500_100435224_m.jpg > >>>> 2014 Fiat 500e EV > >>>> > >>>> > http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2015-volkswagen-e-golf-limited-edition_100503450_m.jpg > >>>> 2015 Volkswagen e-Golf Limited Edition EV > >>>> > >>>> > http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2015-kia-soul-ev_100456106_m.jpg > >>>> 2015 Kia Soul EV > >>>> ] > >>>> > >>>> When it comes to states friendly to electric cars, Washington is > pretty > >>>> close to the top. > >>>> > >>>> It has one of the highest percentages of registered plug-in electric > cars in > >>>> That's assuming that more choices == more sales. I don't know if > that's > > true or not for this market. There are plenty of EVs for sale in Wash. > and I certainly want to see their sales increase. Ideally speaking, I'd > rather see "real" cars rather than "compliance" cars. Just an emotional > response. > > > > Peri > > > > ------ Original Message ------ > > From: "Mark Abramowitz via EV" <[email protected]> > > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> > > Sent: 06-May-15 7:31:55 AM > > Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: WA Loves Electric Cars, But Gets Very Few > > > >> I don't get this. > >> > >> Why on earth would anyone want any less ZEVs out there, no matter why > they are there? > >> > >> We need as many ZEVs out there as we can get, as quickly as possible. > >> > >> > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >>> On May 6, 2015, at 6:40 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> > >>> I was wondering about this. Glad you found the article, Bruce. > >>> > >>> Maybe it's just as well not to have a bunch of compliance cars on the > market, here. The "real" ones will come along as the EV market and > technology progresses. > >>> > >>> Peri > >>> > >>> ------ Original Message ------ > >>> From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[email protected]> > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Sent: 06-May-15 12:15:30 AM > >>> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: WA Loves Electric Cars, But Gets Very Few > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1098052_washington-state-loves-electric-cars-but-gets-very-few-heres-why > >>>> Washington State Loves Electric Cars, But Gets Very Few: Here's Why > >>>> By Stephen Edelstein Apr 29, 2015 ht2 Brian Henderson > >>>> > >>>> [images > >>>> > http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2014-chevrolet-spark-ev_100433719_m.jpg > >>>> 2014 Chevrolet Spark EV > >>>> > >>>> http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2014-fiat-500_100435224_m.jpg > >>>> 2014 Fiat 500e EV > >>>> > >>>> > http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2015-volkswagen-e-golf-limited-edition_100503450_m.jpg > >>>> 2015 Volkswagen e-Golf Limited Edition EV > >>>> > >>>> > http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2015-kia-soul-ev_100456106_m.jpg > >>>> 2015 Kia Soul EV > >>>> ] > >>>> > >>>> When it comes to states friendly to electric cars, Washington is > pretty > >>>> close to the top. > >>>> > >>>> It has one of the highest percentages of registered plug-in electric > cars in > >>>> the country, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. > >>>> > >>>> Electric cars get a sales-tax exemption in Washington, and access to > >>>> charging infrastructure that's fed mostly from wind and hydro power. > >>>> > >>>> Yet Washington buyers are stuck with the same limited selection of > models as > >>>> in states with far less generous policies or eager buyers. > >>>> > >>>> Certain models of battery-electric car--including the BMW i3, Ford > Focus > >>>> Electric, Mitsubishi i-MiEV, Nissan Leaf, and Tesla Model S--are > available > >>>> in Washington. > >>>> > >>>> But many other low-volume models, from the Chevrolet Spark EV to the > >>>> Volkswagen e-Golf, aren't. > >>>> > >>>> What gives? > >>>> As it turns out, while Washington adopted California's emissions > standard, > >>>> it failed to include that state's zero-emission vehicle mandate. > >>>> > >>>> That means there's no incentive for manufacturers to sell more > electric cars > >>>> in Washington state, explains a recent Seattle Times blog post. > >>>> > >>>> The mandate requires carmakers to sell a certain percentage of > zero-emission > >>>> vehicles in California. > >>>> > >>>> That led to those manufacturers developing low-volume models > specifically > >>>> for the purpose of meeting that state's mandate. > >>>> > >>>> These "compliance cars" include the Spark EV, Fiat 500e [EV], and the > >>>> recently-discontinued Honda Fit EV and Toyota RAV4 EV, among others. > >>>> > >>>> Washington doesn't get these cars, nor does it get certain low-volume > models > >>>> like the Mercedes-Benz B-Class Electric Drive and Volkswagen e-Golf. > >>>> > >>>> And without regulatory strong-arming, many carmakers don't want to > invest in > >>>> expanded distribution of electric cars. > >>>> > >>>> They often want to limit the money they spend to develop an electric > model > >>>> that is only intended to sell in small numbers, and restrict > distribution to > >>>> states where sales count toward the requirements of the ZEV mandate. > >>>> > >>>> "I hope you don't buy it," Fiat Chrysler Automobiles CEO Sergio > Marchionne > >>>> infamously said of the 500e, "every time I sell one it costs me > $14,000." > >>>> > >>>> The Fiat and the Chevy Spark EV are both available in neighboring > Oregon, > >>>> and some Washington residents have reportedly crossed the border to > buy > >>>> examples of those models. > >>>> > >>>> However, local servicing can be difficult, as dealers that don't sell > the > >>>> electric variants lack the equipment and training to work on them. > >>>> > >>>> Washington buyers will get at least one more electric-car option in a > few > >>>> months, though. > >>>> > >>>> The state is one of five that will get the Kia Soul EV, beginning in > June. > >>>> > >>>> The Soul EV is currently sold only in California, but Kia decided to > expand > >>>> to Washington, Georgia, Texas, Oregon, and Hawaii in response to > strong > >>>> consumer interest. > >>>> [© greencarreports.com] > >>>> ... > >>>> > http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1095708_washington-state-to-give-electric-cars-tax-breaks-carpool-lane-access > >>>> Washington State To Give Electric Cars Tax Breaks, Carpool-Lane > Access? (Dec > >>>> 2014) > >>>> ... > >>>> > http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1091059_compliance-car-update-which-electric-cars-are-loss-leaders > >>>> Compliance Car Update: Which Electric Cars Are Loss Leaders? (Mar > 2014) > >>>> ... > >>>> > http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1097563_kia-soul-ev-to-go-on-sale-in-five-more-states-by-this-june > >>>> Kia Soul EV To Go On Sale In Five More States By This June > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> For EVLN posts use: > >>>> http://evdl.org/evln/ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> {brucedp.150m.com} > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> View this message in context: > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-WA-Loves-Electric-Cars-But-Gets-Very-Few-tp4675373.html > >>>> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive > at Nabble.com. > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >>>> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >>> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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