Still anecdotal, but makes me inclined to believe dealers drag their feet. Toyota introduced the Scion marque, which I like enough to have bought several original xB's, you couldn't get squat from the Toyota stores that had Scions in terms of education or sales effort. If you wanted to see one they would show you by the Matrix and Corolla first. That was true for years in some regions, but has changed now in NC and with increased popularity. As small ICE go they are pretty nice. At the level of sales floor and their management it is sell what makes money, sell what you know. EVs are more complicated to the neophyte.
Then there is CARB and compliance cars. That couldn't be much clearer, "We don't want to make and sell any more of these than necessary to get credit from the gov." It is all getting better, but it has been a long time coming. Last I heard Tesla has 325000 worldwide deposits for the Model 3. That is certainly indicative of a market unfulfilled. On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 8:05 AM, dovepa via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > > In apiece entitled “A Car Dealers Won’t Sell: It’s Electric“, maps out all > the reservations held by traditional car dealers and their parent OEMs in > selling plug-ins to the US consumer.Chevrolet announces Tuesday, July 27, > 2010 the 2011 Chevy Volt electric vehicle with extended range capability > will go on sale with a Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price starting at > $41,000.(Photo by Martin Klimek for Chevrolet)And it all starts from the > top. Former chairman of the National Automobile Dealers Association (NADA), > Forrest McConnell, famously made a speech stating that tougher fuel-economy > regulations pushing plug-ins were making consumers eat broccoli when in > reality they wanted “low-calories doughnuts”, by which he meant more > fuel-efficient gas cars – kind of like what they (the dealers of America) > were already selling. > http://insideevs.com/report-car-dealers-holding-back-ev-sales-america/ > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone-------- Original message > --------From: Mark Abramowitz via EV <[email protected]> Date: 4/12/2016 > 10:00 PM (GMT-06:00) To: Rush Dougherty <[email protected]>, > [email protected] Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: (Why?) Nissan sez it is > 'Tesla-3 Stoked' ... > Actually, I’m not giving up yet that there’s data on this, if it’s true. > It was Tom that posted that there was data, and he hasn’t responded. > > > On April 12, 2016 at 7:57:48 PM, Mark Abramowitz ([email protected]) > wrote: > > > That’s certainly fact, data, etc., and I’m not seeing any disagreement > about the EV1. > > But you’re talkingabout something completely different than what was > said. I was asking for the data that was said to exist about DEALERS not > wanting to selling to sell EVs. And presumably anything less than current > data won’t be useful. > > Trust me, I would be laughed out of the room if I walked into a meeting > and said “We’ve got a problem with dealers being a barrier to integrating > EVs into the fleet, and we need to figure out what to do about it. My > evidence that dealers don’t want to sell EVs is that we’ve got 25 year old > anecdotes about manufacturers not wanting to put them out on the road.” > > Sorry, you got my hopes up that there was real data demonstrating this, > and that I could make use of it to address the problem. > > > On April 12, 2016 at 7:11:37 PM, Rush Dougherty ([email protected]) > wrote: > > Mark > > Fact, Data, Truth, whatever you chose to call it - the EV1 was not SOLD, > it was > leased.... > > Rush Dougherty > Tucson AZ 85719 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: EV [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark > Abramowitz via > EV > > Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 5:57 PM > > To: EVDL Administrator; Electric Vehicle Discussion List > > Cc: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' > > Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: (Why?) Nissan sez it is 'Tesla-3 Stoked' ... > > > > Yep, I remember the Impact. Great pre-production car. I had a chance to > go > for a ride in > > one. > > But GM is a very different company today than it was under Stempel- that > was > 25 years > > ago! > > In any case, this is NOT data relating to dealers selling EVs. It's not > even > data... > > > > > > - Mark > > > > > > From: EVDL Administrator via EV <[email protected]> To: "'Electric > Vehicle > Discussion > > List'" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: (Why?) Nissan sez > it is > 'Tesla-3 > > Stoked' ... Date: 4/12/16, 4:43 PM > > > > > > On 12 Apr 2016 at 14:29, Rush Dougherty via EV wrote: > > > > > I'd say that the first chapter would be about the EV1, A fantastic EV > > > by any standard that GM did NOT want to sell and was CRUSHED ... > > > > Yeah, literally crushed. > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ev1_crush5.jpg > > > > I wish I could find where I read it and get corroboration, but there's a > story > about the Impact, > > the Aerovironment-built prototype that eventually > > became the EV1. > > > > The tale goes that when GM showed the Impact at the 1990 (I think it > was) LA > auto show, > > one of their executives, possibly Robert Stempel himself, was standing > next to > a board > > member of CARB. The CARB rep was praising the Impact and its potential > to the > heavens. > > Stempel is supposed to have listened for a few minutes, gradually > becoming > more agitated. > > Finally he looked at the guy and said, point-blank, "You're not really > going > to make us > > BUILD that car, are you?" > > > > I was surprised when they actually put the Volt on the market. When it > comes > to EVs, GM > > has generally been little talk and even less action. Most of their EV > "experiments" seemed > > to revolve around demonstrating just how > > allegedly impractical EVs are / were. > > > > Look at the 1966 Electrovair II. It was a converted Corvair, really not > that > much different in > > size and weight from the Impact / EV1, but even more impossible to mass > produce. But > > unlike the Impact, it didn't use batteries that might be affordable. > Instead > they filled it with > > silver zinc batteries. On these high-energy (for the time) batteries it > got > as much as > > 80 miles of range. > > > > Did you catch that the batteries were silver=based? Can you imagine how > much > that cost? > > Try $160,000 in 1966. That's just for the battery. The Electrovair's > battery > alone cost 64 > > times as much as a 1966 Corvair ICE ($2500). > > > > Today that 500+ volt silver-zinc battery would cost $1.2 million, based > on > inflation > > adjustment on the original cost, and about $8 million based on the > > current value of silver. > > > > Of >course< the Electrovair was impractical. GM didn't WANT it to be > practical, any more > > than they wanted the Impact / EV1 to be practical. > > > > GM has been that kind of company for as long as I've been following EVs. > > That's been since around 1967. Maybe that history helps you understand > why > some of us > > remain deeply skeptical of GM's sincerity. > > > > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA > > EVDL Administrator > > > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL > Information: > > http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > = = = > = = = > > Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To > send > a private > > message, please obtain my email address from the webpage > http://www.evdl.org/help/ . > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag > racing > at NEDRA > > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev- > > evdl.org/attachments/20160412/033bc50f/attachment.htm> > > _______________________________________________ > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag > racing > at NEDRA > > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160412/fdc84b90/attachment.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160413/b3f77a50/attachment.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Mobile and Google Phone [email protected] <[email protected]> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160413/deb663c9/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
