OK, it looks like the saga has concluded today, regarding my 2012 with cold weather package that I swapped in a battery without heaters and as a result, the car was constantly charging the 12V battery, due to the (old) BMS (LBC) not answering the car's inquiries about whether the heaters were on or not, resulting in the car not knowing if the heater relays were draining the 12V battery and thus it turning on the DC/DC converter permanently.
I found an LBC from a late 2011 or 2012 which has the battery heater control integrated into the LBC and a relay in the pack (early 2011 and some 2013 have a 3rd plug on the exterior of the battery case, so the car can turn the heaters on, but this is unnecessary complex to route the power from outside back into the battery for the heaters, as the battery already has this power internally, so why not avoid the 3rd plug and simply have a small relay inside the battery case?) Anyway, I tried to load the memory configuration of the old LBC (which was programmed to the car) into the new LBC, but apparently with adding the code for the heater control, the memory configuration has changed, so the car still did not accept this LBC. I tried a few times with different areas copied over the original cold-weather LBC configuration, but since each iteration meant a lot of work, including hoisting the pack up to the car to plug it in under the car, I soon gave up, put the original cold weather LBC configuration back into it, bolted the battery case shut and installed it again in the car, put the covers on and this morning I drove at a leisurely 25 MPH to the dealer to once more register the battery to this car, but now with the correct LBC type. After a couple minutes on the Consult computer the car registered the battery and everything was OK. The tech asked me how I made sure that this was a cold weather package LBC, so I explained that I had opened the LBC, verified that it had the correct circuits (compared to the non-cold-weather LBC which used the same circuit board, but which did not have the components placed for the heater relay control and sensing. I also added a jumper to feed back the control output to the sensing input, as I saw on the schematic of the cold weather battery and I added a small resistor between the pins where the relay coil would connect, so that even without the relay present, the LBC would still "see" something connected.) And indeed, the car is now happy as a clam, no more error messages, no more 12V battery charging, sucking down the HV battery. Only thing that still needs to self-adjust is the range indication, since this LBC is from a newish battery or its statistics have been erased, so that it is now considering that it has a new battery and needs to re-learn the capacity of the actual battery. It is great timing, as I just picked up a battery today that needs to go into the next Leaf. I think I will stick with swapping module stacks this time just to be on the safe side... -----Original Message----- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Cor van de Water via EV Sent: Friday, July 07, 2017 9:51 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Weird Nissan Leaf behavior: 3rd charginglightblinks after new pack install: cold weather package... BTW, You can immediately see it if you know what to look for: left of the steering wheel are 3 black buttons. The middle one is the timer override ("charge now") and the button closest to the steering wheel is the steering wheel heater, it literally looks like a roasting steering wheel with a pictogram of a steering wheel and 3 squiggly lines rising from it... -----Original Message----- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Cor van de Water via EV Sent: Friday, July 07, 2017 7:55 PM To: Chris Meier Cc: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Weird Nissan Leaf behavior: 3rd charging lightblinks after new pack install: cold weather package... Chris: 1- battery heaters (originally 2011 Leafs have a 3rd battery connector for this but apparently since 2012 the battery heaters are controlled by the LBC temp measurement and then engaging a small contactor to send the HV to the heaters internally, so no 3rd connector and external relay, which makes the battery indistinguishable as whether it has heaters, other than from the part nr. Apparently also the LBC programming is different) 2- seat heaters 3- steering wheel heater Hope this clarifies, Cor > On Jul 7, 2017, at 7:35 PM, Chris Meier <m...@comcast.net> wrote: > > Cor, could you please describe the options/features/differences that make up the cold weather package? > -- > -Chris > >> On July 7, 2017 5:58:46 PM CDT, Cor van de Water via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: >> Exactly, >> >> Either I will find a way to re-program my current LBC to support the >> cold weather package >> >> or I will have to find an LBC from a cold weather package battery (I >> might have one by next week) >> >> and I have even considered adding a little circuit that disables one >> contactor as soon as the ignition is off, >> >> but I figured that it will need to be enabled when either Charging is >> active or Ignition is on, so it needs to >> >> combine those two signals and then use that combined signal to enable >> a contactor. >> >> This will likely throw an error when the car tries to charge the 12V >> battery from the HV pack. >> >> And I do not know if the car will turn off and sleep if it can't >> charge the 12V battery, >> >> so it might drain the 12V battery instead of the HV pack. >> >> When putting a disconnect on the 12V battery, you also make it >> impossible to open (or lock) the car with the FOB, >> >> so every time you want to use the car, you need to pull out the >> mechanical key, open the driver door >> >> (the only door with a mechanical lock), pull the hood release, open >> the hood, reconnect the 12V and close hood. >> >> When parking the car for a longer period, you would need to: stop the >> car (not turn off) and pull hood release, >> >> open hood and disconnect 12V battery, close hood, then get in the >> car, lock all doors manually, raise windows, turn car off so it dies, >> >> get out and then lock driver door manually with key. >> >> Not to mention setting time and radio stations... >> >> There must be a easier way... >> >> (Of course, I should have matched the car with cold weather package >> with the battery, if I had known in advance....) >> >> Cor. >> >> >> >> From: damon henry [mailto:damonhe...@hotmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, July 07, 2017 5:44 AM >> To: ROBERT; Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Weird Nissan Leaf behavior: 3rd charging light >> blinks after new pack install: cold weather package... >> >> >> >> You do realize this is for switching off the 12v SLA battery usually >> when it is not under load right? >> >> >> >> I've used a bunch of these over the years and they are fairly beefy >> for the job they are asked to do. I even have one on my motorcycle >> and it easily carries my full traction pack voltage and current 48v 400 amps. >> I don't expect it to switch that off under load, but I put it in the >> circuit so that I could completely disconnect my motor controller >> during charging. I have a properly rated contactor on the other side >> of the circuit for any emergency shut offs. >> >> >> >> These switches are more than up to the task of disconnecting the 12 >> volt battery for years without fail. I'm just not sure if Cor is the >> type to settle for an ugly hack like this to a complicated problem. >> He seems more like the type to grind through and uncover a proper >> solution, but even if that is the case this could be a temporary >> solution. >> >> >> >> Damon >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: ROBERT <bhensle...@msn.com> >> Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2017 12:30 PM >> To: Cor van de Water; damon henry; Electric Vehicle Discussion List >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Weird Nissan Leaf behavior: 3rd charging light >> blinks after new pack install: cold weather package... >> >> >> >> A battery cut off switch with only weak mechanical specs. No maximum >> number of switching operations, etc. Now, that is interesting. >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of damon henry via EV >> <ev@lists.evdl.org> >> Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2017 7:37 AM >> To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Weird Nissan Leaf behavior: 3rd charging light >> blinks after new pack install: cold weather package... >> >> >> >> Hi Cor, >> >> >> I'm not sure how much help you will get on a proper solution as you >> are kind of out there on the bleeding edge with the Leaf battery >> replacement thing and usually the one providing the answers :) >> >> >> A possible hack might be installing a battery cutoff switch for the >> 12 volt battery. Harbor Freight sells them for $8. >> >> https://www.harborfreight.com/battery-cutoff-switch-63425.html >> >> <https://www.harborfreight.com/battery-cutoff-switch-63425.html> >> >> Battery Cutoff Switch - Harbor Freight Tools >> <https://www.harborfreight.com/battery-cutoff-switch-63425.html> >> >> www.harborfreight.com >> >> Amazing deals on this Battery Cut Off Switch at Harbor Freight. >> Quality tools & low prices. >> >> >> >> >> Damon >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of Cor van de Water >> via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> >> Sent: Monday, July 3, 2017 6:11:47 PM >> To: ev@lists.evdl.org >> Subject: [EVDL] Weird Nissan Leaf behavior: 3rd charging light blinks >> after new pack install: cold weather package... >> >> OK, I did something to my Leaf that I need to get fixed, because now >> the Leaf is charging the 12V battery whenever the car should be >> asleep, >> >> as a result it is losing charge from the main pack. >> >> It started two days ago when I removed the new (warranty replacement >> battery) from this 2012 Leaf SL with cold weather package. >> >> I do not know why it has a cold weather package, being in California >> it never gets below freezing in a car so a cold weather package is >> quite odd, but anyhow. >> >> I installed a 2011 battery, apparently without cold weather package >> knowledge in the LBC. >> >> Since then, every time the car is supposed to sleep, it starts >> blinking the 3rd charging LED and is actually charging the 12V >> battery to 14.4V continuously, >> >> resulting in 1 mile range loss every hour. >> >> Anybody have a clue how to get the car to stop being confused about >> the cold weather package? >> >> Does the LBC need to be reprogrammed? I can modify the configuration >> (serial) memory of the LBC, if I know what to change. >> >> Or should I have the car's computer reprogrammed to tell it to forget >> about the cold weather package? I do not need it! >> >> Don't really want to pull the 12V battery contact off every time I >> want to park the car more than a day and the energy loss >> >> is quite a waste as well... >> >> Any Leaf experts out there? >> Cor. >> >> >> >> BTW, the model nrs of the new 2017 battery that I removed and the >> 2011 battery that I installed: >> >> 2017 battery: 295B09RB9D >> >> 2011 battery: 295B03NA0A >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >> scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20170703/d >> d38 >> 58fa/attachment.htm> >> _______________________________________________ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> >> <http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub> >> >> EVDL Subscription Information and Help >> <http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub> >> >> www.evdl.org >> >> About the EVDL: The Electric Vehicle Discussion List, founded in 1991 >> by EV enthusiast Clyde Visser, is an active and vital source of >> information and help for people ... >> >> >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> >> EV -- Electric Vehicle Discussion List - lists.evdl.org ... >> <http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org> >> >> lists.evdl.org >> >> The Electric Vehicle Discussion List is a forum for discussing the >> current state of the art and future direction of electric vehicles >> (EVs). 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