I wouild like to see the cost/carbon/benefit analysis of providing fossil-fuel catalytic heaters in cold climatges. Yes, there is double to triple energy savings with heatpumps but they still do not work effectively at cold climates.
Me thinks that using a fossil fuel 99.9% efficient heater for people and battery might be worth studying in cold areas.. And the tradeoff should be based on total carbon emissionis, not just cost. And, of course, it will change over time as the grid gets cleaner. -----Original Message----- From: EV <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Peri Hartman via EV Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 10:43 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> Cc: Peri Hartman <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings bite them in the arse I wonder why they didn't' design a battery warmer into the case (at least I assume they didn't). Seems that would have made a tremendous difference in this case. ------ Original Message ------ From: "Mark Abramowitz via EV" <[email protected]> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> Cc: "Mark Abramowitz" <[email protected]>; "brucedp5" <[email protected]> Sent: 28-May-19 11:54:38 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings bite them in the arse >It’s not about whether or not the range is lower at lower temperatures, or >what you get in your car, but the accuracy of the claims being made by >vendors of zero emission technologies, and the commitments they make to >customers. > >BYD has some *great* products and is run by sone great folks, but this kind >of thing undermines the ability to transform fleets to zero emissions. It >hurts all of us working in the field when companies fail to meet the >contracted performance specs in their contracts. > >And this is not the only similar horror story I’ve heard (though not >necessarily about BYD). > >There is really no excuse for this. I will likely see BYD’s President later >this week, and will be expressing my disappointment. > >- Mark > >Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > >> On May 28, 2019, at 7:58 PM, Rod Hower via EV <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Anybody that drives an EV, even a Volt that is a series hybrid realize >> the cold temperature limitations, especially if you like to keep it warm >> and cozy on cold days. I get 46 miles EV on my 2014 Volt on the best >> days, 24 miles on the coldest nastiest days when I like to keep the car >> warm and toasty. Not a problem for me since I commute 21 miles and plug >> in at work and I also plug in at home with 240V so I never use gas. My >> best guess is this BYD range was estimated by sales and marketing while >> the engineers were cringing in the corner knowing it was complete BS, but >> the accounting department and upper management looking for higher returns >> on investment realized range needed to be increased to meet contracts >> with bus fleets that required the higher range, regardless of them >> actually needing them. The good news is that the majority of bus >> manufactures see the writing on the wall and are planning for an all >> electric fleet knowing that will be demanded soon by many fleet orders. >> The immediate future for bus transit is electric and most manufactures >> are already gearing up for that. With the advancements in batteries, >> motors and controls, most fleet operators realize that electric is >> cheaper to maintain than diesel or natural gas. The transitions will not >> happen overnight, been when the people paying for overall cost of fleet >> operation is much cheaper on electric they will switch, and it's coming >> soon < 5 years. >> On Tuesday, May 28, 2019, 10:34:59 PM EDT, brucedp5 via EV >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> https://electrek.co/2019/05/24/byd-indianapolis-electric-bus-range/ >> BYD installing wireless charging in Indianapolis to boost >> disappointing range of its electric buses May. 24th 2019 >> >> [image >> >> https://i2.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/05/indy >> gobydbus.jpg >> e-bus >> ] >> >> Electric bus maker BYD has to install and pay for a wireless >> charging infrastructure upgrade in Indianapolis after its buses >> experienced “lower-than-expected distances on one charge” during >> testing. >> >> Indianapolis Public Transportation Corporation IndyGo announced it >> reached an agreement with BYD to get the new infrastructure. BYD >> will install wireless charging hardware for the buses, in addition >> to three wireless inductive charging pads along bus routes. >> >> During testing, IndyGo realized low temperatures were causing a >> dramatic dropoff in predicted range. Justin Stuehrenberg, IndyGo >> vice president of capital projects and planning, said: >> >> “We anticipated that vehicle range would depend on temperature, >> but the contract requires a 275-mile range at 0 degrees. Our team >> identified several options to address the issue and worked closely >> with BYD to determine the most feasible resolution. At the same >> time, we made it clear to the company they must be accountable to >> our contract. Numerous test days this spring resulted in range >> performance at and above the contractually required 275 miles on a >> single charge. To date, the best range of any one test was 307 miles on >> a single charge.” >> >> Many of those tests didn’t approach the required 275 miles, usually >> ending somewhere in the low 200-mile range, as the range report from >> IndyGo reveals. On one frigid day, range was limited to 152 miles. > >_______________________________________________ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
