On 4 Aug 2009, at 08:21, Dylan Jay wrote:
I'm not sure where this leaves us, but I think that it is really
interesting that plone as a community doesn't know much about its
integrators. A survey on all the companies servicing plone would
make an excellent talk at the conference... at least for me.
Think about it this way. If Plone were a propriatory product, the
mother company would know a awful lot about it's value added
resellers. The reason is, they are an essential part of creating a
successful product. Modern software companies know that enabling
your channel partners and resellers to make a successful business
means the product gets out there and in more useful ways than the
mother company ever could by itself. Plone as a community is as
interested in growth as much any propriatory company is.
Understanding our who our integrators are could be a valuable first
step to increasing it's take up.
Right. This was something I talked to Dave Shapiro (and Karl Horek
maybe?) about at the last Plone Conf. We were talking about a 'Plone
Census' of some kind. Using the details that are in plone.net to start
with we were going to call/email around every company listed on
plone.net (break it up into sections and divide to a group of
volunteers) and 1) prompt each of them to update their details on
plone.net. 2) prompt them about sponsorship etc. We were also I think
going to try and get some more metrics and information from them.
I really think that plone.net could possibly do with some love
beforehand, and bring it on brand with the new plone.org. Then maybe
do a push to integrators after that.
I like the talk idea. What sort of form would you see it having? Would
it be a case of a survey done beforehand and then the results
announced, discussed etc during the talk? There is going to a un-
conference style day as one day of the Plone Conf in which talks will
be spontaneously proposed, maybe it could be something you might want
to champion there?
At the moment I think we are often trying to pitch against the big
boys saying our system can do everything they can. But maybe the
message that Umbraco is using is 'we are lighter/smaller/quicker/
cheaper etc' than the big boys. I know in reality Plone can/does
use both messages.
We generally pitch it as an enterprise system for those that want
more flexibility. Plone isn't really simple enough for a small web
consultancy to pick up for the odd jobs. It's really a full time
thing. We also try to sell it into the bigger market because plone
plone can compete where others can't... workflow, flexible security,
web document management, multisite deployments, so the customers
value it more.
If you want something to put up a quick brochure ware site then your
compete against all teh cheap php coders and it's a waste of plone
I agree 100% with this. And I think we pitch it at a similar market to
What I guess I really wanted to get some thoughts on in this thread
was the topic that Janus raised in his blog post and email... about
Plone consultancy company sizes versus other projects (such as
Umbraco). Does size matter? If so, why? Comparing Umbraco's 'certified
partner' list there is 15 companies listed, versus over 300 on
plone.net. Does the number of companies matter? Umbraco also have a
list of 'certified developers' who have undergone some kind of test
(10 multiple choice questions from a random pool). They have 150
developers listed there. We have 120 Plone Foundation members. I know
we've talked about certification and what it means many times before
in the Plone community, and I don't think we ever reached any kind of
So... does size matter?
Matt Hamilton ma...@netsight.co.uk
Netsight Internet Solutions, Ltd. Understand. Develop. Deliver
http://www.netsight.co.uk +44 (0)117 9090901
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