----- Original Message -----
From: "John Mikes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Marchal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: Is consciousness real?
> Bruno, it is very amusing to outguess Descartes' reaction if he learned
> I have to tell you about my scientific agnosticism: we don't know
> Mind-body (just like consciousness (microtubull?) or emergence, chaos,
> items within that agnosticism. The M-B (real say you) problem is a
> there is a complexity human, part of the overall complexity of existence
> this universe of ours, it has a physically (physiologically?) identified
> aspect, called body and a mental (unidentified?) aspect called mind.
> You can (may?) use both but not with a digital brain.
> Live well
> John M
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marchal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 10:42 AM
> Subject: Re: Is consciousness real?
> > Jamikes wrote:
> > > ...
> > >They all make a living on ["consciousness"]. And:
> > >Poor old Descartes (I esteem his genius to
> > >the highest level) would have
> > >made quite different conclusions had he had a
> > >freshman's cours of the
> > >2000/2001 schoolyear in physiology and
> > >biology. (Pineal gland?)
> > Either he would have remain sort of idol-deistic and then
> > he would have substitute pineal gland by microtubul ...
> > Or he would have follow its mechanist path, and ...
> > ... would be sort of many-worlder :-)
> > Now that I know that you belief in experiences
> > like suffering, I know you belief in consciousness
> > which I take minimaly as what is common in all
> > experiences like suffering, enjoying, fearing,
> > flying, ...
> > What is called today "the problem of consciousness" is
> > just a renaming of Descartes' "mind-body problem".
> > I am not sanguin about the word "consciousness", nor
> > on any words ...
> > The mind-body problem is a very concrete one. I mean,
> > with the developpement of technology, you can
> > imagine some doctor proposing you an artificial digital brain.
> > You can forget the word "consciousness" or even "mind".
> > But your life, in the most intime way you can apprehend it,
> > could depend on answering OK, or NOT OK, to the doctor.
> > We cannot know the answer but we can reason from
> > hypothesis and world conceptions.
> > Bruno