Dear Bruno, I hope not to affront Lee when I imply that "both of us" may well accept the 1st person "impression of reality" as interpreted by the 1st person mind, only the "objective" encompassing reality - which is not accesible in its uninterpreted format - is the problem. Interpreted used as subjectivised. There is a fine line separating solipsism from craziness and to 'verify' the existence of an uninterpreted reality would go beyond our lifetimes - unless we resort to beliefs of convenience.
John M --- Bruno Marchal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Le 08-août-05, à 17:49, Lee Corbin a écrit : > > > (True, we can also extend sympathy by believing it > to be utterly > > true that he is experiencing pain, but I think > that John and I > > (and many) are simply not comfortable with > introducing a "reality", > > namely, "subjective reality" to cover this simple > situation.) > > > This amounts to dismissing the first person. I am > sure you did have > known to be living some "subjective reality". > What exactly makes you not comfortable with the > "other mind" reality? > Is it the fact that it is not verifiable? > In that case again, incompleteness theorem can be > used as a cure, > because it makes utterly clear that for the sound > machine there are > many truth which are guess-able but unprovable. > > Is it the fact that once you accept the reality of > the first person > experiences, then we are led to that first person > indeterminacy from > which the physical laws emerges, assuming comp > (which you accept)? > > You are neither a zombie, nor a solipsist, so what > is the origin of you > dismissing the reality of first person experiences. > I am very curious, > because, as you say, you are not the only one. > > Is it because you do feel some inconsistency with > your physicalist > assumptions, once we take seriously the "assumption" > that others can > feel genuine pleasures and pains. > > Anyway. We are not supposed to search comfort, but > to reason from facts > and assumptions, isn't it? > > Bruno > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > >
