George Levy wrote:
> Brent Meeker wrote:
> 
> 
>>That brings us back to Descartes "I think therefore I am"; which Russell 
>>pointed out was an unsupported inference. 
>> 
>>
> 
> 
> IMHO everything hinges on "I think." "I think" MUST BE THE STARTING 
> POINT - for any conscious observer THERE IS NO OTHER OBSERVABLE STARTING 
> POINT!

Are you disputing Russell's point that "I" is a construct and "thinking" is 
all you have without inference?

> "I think" is both an *observed fact* as well as an *axiom* from which 
> everything else can be derived. 

I don't think much of anything can be derived from just "I think".  For 
example, "I think" is consistent with "Pigs fly" and with "Pigs don't fly"; 
so you can't infer whether or not pigs fly.

>So you could argue that the observation 
> of "I think" supports the axiom "I think." In fact any conscious 
> observation of the world also necessitates the "I think" observation and 
> the "I think" assumption.
> 
> "I think" also implies the concept of sanity. Unless you assume the 
> first step "I think" and that you are sane, you can't take any rational 
> and conscious second step and have any rational and conscious thought 
> process. You wouldn't be able to hold any rational discussion. 

But if you weren't sane you might still think you were.  To hold a rational 
discussion you'd need to assume or prove there's someone to talk to.

>Inherent 
> in any computational process is the concept of sanity. Maybe this is 
> what Bruno refers to as "sane machine."
> 
> "I think" also implies a certain logical/mathematical system (which 
> Bruno is working on).

I "think" not.

> 
> "I think" furthermore implies a reflexive quality

Or just assumes it.

>which is essential for 
> consciousness. This reflexive quality is also included in Bruno's 
> logical/mathematical system.
> 
> "I think" also infers 

Did you mean "implies"??

Brent Meeker

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