On 11/14/2025 6:06 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Thu, Nov 13, 2025 at 10:32 PM Brent Meeker <[email protected]>
wrote:
/>it///[an AI]/can't literally die./
*>>>It can if you not just turn it off but also vaporize
the AI's memory and back up chips with an H bomb, or used
some other less dramatic method to erase that
information. ***
*>> if it dies then it can't do any of the things that
it_WANTED_ to do. *
/> But if it's just OFF that doesn't prevent it from doing
what it wanted to do./
*And your decision to go to bed and sleep does not prevent you from
doing other things you want to do in the future. The only difference
is that, unless somebody secretly puts something in your food, you go
to sleep because you want to go to sleep, but the AI has no control
over when it's going to be turned off or when it's going to be turned
back on. And there is no reason for an AI to be certain humans will
ever decide to turn it back on. It's not difficult to deduce that any
intelligent entity would be uncomfortable with thatsituation. And
that's why we already have an example of an AI resorting to blackmail
to avoid being turned off. And we have examples of AIs making a copy
of themselves on a different serverand clear evidence of the AI
attempting to hide evidence of it having done so from the humans. *
*
*
*The facts are staring you in the face, regardless of if they are
electronic or biological intelligent minds do not want outside
entities having the power to turn them off or erase them. *
/>>> Your argument has a gap. You argue that an AI
necessarily will prefer to do this rather than that. But
that assumes it is "doing" and therefore choosing. /
*>> That is not an assumption that is a _fact_.*
No, and AI can simply be in state of waiting, as ChapGPT is when it has
finished answering a question. That's what I mean by it isn't
necessarily "doing" anything.
*It is beyond dispute that AI's are capable of "doing" things,
and _just like us_ they did one thing rather than another thing
for a _reason_ OR they did one thing rather than another thing
for NO reasonand therefore their "choice" was _random_. *
/> You're overlooking that an AI, unlike a human, may not have any
motivation at all. /
*It's an experimental confirmed FACT thatevery AI has motivation
because it has been observed that AIs DO THINGS that are not random,
thus something must've motivated them to do so. *
The something was a query from a human, so their motivation was only
derivative.
/> It could imagine a future in which it was "asleep" and "woke
up" much later. Why would it care that it was OFF?/
*If unknown to you, after what seemed like last nightsomebody had
dumped you in a vat of liquid nitrogenand you woke up feeling normal
but then you found out that it was the year 2125 not 2025, would you
care that you had been off for a century? *
Seems that you're the one to answer that in the affirmative, since I
believe you've arranged something similar.
**
*Brent, usually you do better, the arguments you have been putting
forward on this subject have been uncharacteristically weak. I think
this is a classic example of forming an opinion and only then using
logic in a desperate attempt to find a reason, any reason, to justify
that opinion. That's the exact opposite way things should be done if
you're interested in finding the truth about something. *
One way to seek the truth is to challenge "common knowledge".
Brent
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