Stathis:
would you condone to include in your (appreciated) post below the words at
the * I plant into your text?
The words: "in the (scientific?) belief system we have TODAY about our
interpretation of whatever epistemically we so far learned about the
'world'."
That would underline your subsequent sentence - if you kindly stop
denigrating the term 'metaphysics' - a pejoration of the same 'carried away'
physicists.

The word 'prediction' also sends the chill alongside my spine: how can a
model based on a model predict events subject to impact from 'beyond model'
changes?
The many results of science-technology should not lead us into a generalized
acceptance of the model-based thinking. This list is a good example.

John Mikes

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stathis Papaioannou" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:54 PM
Subject: RE: The anti-roadmap - an alternative 'Theology'



As Brent Meeker has pointed out, physical theories are just models to make
predictions about how the world works*. If physists get carried away and say
"this is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" then they
are
talking metaphysics, not physics.

Stathis Papaioannou




----------------------------------------
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: The anti-roadmap - an alternative 'Theology'
> Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 11:51:07 -0400
>
>
> Stathis,
>
> you touched the 'truth' (a word I put into "-" because I don't believe
it).
> Matter
> cannot be an "is" - actually or virtually. Rutherford's empty atom shows
the
> dichotomy between 'effects' ('affects'?) and 'explanation' (more than just
> words).
> The figment 'matter' is a product of 'mental evolution' in this universe,
to
> catch imputes we cannot handle. 'We' is here the mental evolution of the
> universe. It was not man, or the old ape who decided "let there be matter
in
> our thinking" - it was a zillion-stepwise development to cope with
'affects'
> we experienced without better explanation. So we (humans and animals)
> nowadays (~1b years?) accept the notion that 'there IS matter' and we can
> interact with it. Physics is a product in this development of reductionist
> efforts to 'organize' our world for ourselves.
> And then came the other sciences as well, in the same reductionism.
>
> We better do not chase a figment, as long as we are living IN IT - accept
> its use and the uncertainty of whatever we talk about. It looks like a
basic
> tenet in our "percept of reality" - the "what we see is what we live with"
> from which I TRY to get to a better understanding (not yet achieved, of
> course). All our life, the base knowledge, the technology, the mental
> construct, is a product of this figment.
>
> Yes, matter is not matterly, just believed so. Energy is a cop-out - a
> 'name' for something we cannot put our finger on (mentally). And so are
> numbers.
>
> The theories you decry, or promote, all of them, are in the same circle.
>
> Regards
>
> John Mikes
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stathis Papaioannou" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "1Z" <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 5:11 AM
> Subject: RE: The anti-roadmap - an alternative 'Theology'
>
>
>
> Peter Jones writes:
>
> > Bruno Marchal wrote:
> >
> > > I can agree. No physicist posit matter in a fundamental theory.
> >
> > All physical theories are theories of matter (mass/energy).
>
> True, but they are not theories of what matter *actually is*. At
> the turn of last century Rutherford showed that atoms were mostly
> empty space. Tables and chairs did not suddenly become less solid as
> a result, but it became clear that their apparent solidity was not
> actually evidence that atoms are solid all the way through. In a similar
> fashion, the apparent solidity of matter is not actually evidence that it
> isn't just fluff all the way down, or part of a computer simulation. Our
> physical theories describe the behaviour of matter without formally
> addressing this question at all, despite what prejudices and working
> assumptions physicists may have about the true basis of physical reality.
>
> Stathis Papaioannou
> _________________________________________________________________
> Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail.
>
http://ideas.live.com/programpage.aspx?versionId=5d21c51a-b161-4314-9b0e-491
> 1fb2b2e6d
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/425 - Release Date: 08/22/06
>
>
>
> >

_________________________________________________________________
Be one of the first to try Windows Live Mail.
http://ideas.live.com/programpage.aspx?versionId=5d21c51a-b161-4314-9b0e-491
1fb2b2e6d




--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/425 - Release Date: 08/22/06



--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Reply via email to