Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
> Peter Jones writes:
>
> > > > > Saying that there is a material substrate which has certain 
> > > > > properties is just a working
> > > > > assumption to facilitate thinking about the real world. It may turn 
> > > > > out that if we dig into
> > > > > quarks very deeply there is nothing "substantial" there at all, but 
> > > > > solid matter will still be
> > > > > solid matter, because it is defined by its properties, not by some 
> > > > > mysterious raw physical
> > > > > substrate.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I am not using the Bare Substrate to explian "solidity", which is as
> > > > you say
> > > > a matter of properties/behaviour.
> > > >
> > > > I am using it to explain contingent existence, and (A series) time.
> > >
> > > We could say that matter is that which feels solid, reflects light, 
> > > distorts spacetime etc.
> > > and leave it at that.
> >
> > However, that is mere behaviour. I need a defiition
> > which digs deeper than behaviour,and I have one.
>
> All I see is mere behaviour.

All you see is phenomena in your own mimd, says the solipsist..

>When I say that something is as real as this desk in front of me, I am
> saying that it is as real as the mere mere behaviour in front of me

How do you know it is really in front of you ?

> - as opposed to the desk in my
> dreams, which lacks such behaviour. Do you think we really disagree about 
> desks? If it looks like a
> desk, feels like a desk etc., then it's a desk. It doesn't add anything to 
> say that it also contains
> "essence of real desk" to distinguish it from dream desks, because dream 
> desks differ from real
> desks in other ways.

Well, what is the difference ? How do you escape solipsism without
embracing materialism ?

> Stathis Papaioannou
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