[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I think that conscious experience (Qualia) is ultimately knowledge
> reflecting on itself, or, to be more precise, I think Qualia are
> *mathematics modelling itself* - a sort of 'internal model of
> mathematics'.  To be even more precise, I think Qualia are symbols
> representing *ontological categories*.

I agree that qualia are ontological, rather than epistemological. I
'experience blue' in virtue of 'being blue' - i.e. myself-as-perceiver,
in specific self-relation with myself-as-percept = being blue (or
rather, blue in parts). This qualitative ontological base is the given
that differentiates into every epistemological category by internal
self-contrast - this is blue, that is red, sour, disgusting, verbal,
mathematical, sexy, whatever. Hence this ontological base cannot itself
be - for example - the physics, because the physics, like all
relationally expressed and acquired information, is part of
epistemology.

If one's ontology is grounded in Arithmetical Realism (e.g. the UD
arithemetically instantiating the infinities of programs generated by
infinities of infinite bitstrings) it then follows that qualia must
indeed be 'internal models of mathematics'. The Arithmetical plenitude
of 'zero-information' self-isolates into islands of non-zero 1st-person
information through anthropic and counter-factual self-selection. The
Library of Babel generates readers to peruse itself. We must therefore
accept that the sense in which we wish this ontological base to be
considered real must be granted to be the same sense, mutatis mutandis
- i.e. the self-isolation of self-aware 1st-persons from the plenitude
- in which we ourselves wish to be considered real.

David

> Interesting what you said about modal and category theory.  I don't
> know much about category theory and I'd be interested to know how you
> would define it.  So: what is category theory?   As far as I can make
> out it's a highly advanced branch of algebra concerned with the
> classification of mathematical structures.  Very interesting that you
> put Category Theory and Modal logic together!
>
> I feel the whole area of non-classical logic is underdeveloped.  Things
> like modal logic, paraconsistent logic, fuzzy logic, possibility theory
> - perhaps these logics are actually the proper logic for dealing with
> 'reflection' and consciousness?
>
> I think that conscious experience (Qualia) is ultimately knowledge
> reflecting on itself, or, to be more precise, I think Qualia are
> *mathematics modelling itself* - a sort of 'internal model of
> mathematics'.  To be even more precise, I think Qualia are symbols
> representing *ontological categories*.  Could Category theory be
> exactly the type of math we need to understand this?  How does category
> theory fit in with the other non-classical logics mentioned above?
>
> We're closing in Bruno.  We're closing in on the answers.  I feel I
> vaguely understand the general principles behind everything now and
> it's just a matter of 'working out the math'.  If course, all the devil
> is in 'working out the math' , and it could take decades.  But I feel
> there's hope now.  Real hope for answers in our lifetime.  It might
> just be that one of us will break through and then all the powers of
> the universe will be humanities to hold...
>
> Pink Floyd
> 'High Hopes'
> by David Gilmour / Polly Samson
>
> Beyond the horizon of the place we lived when we were young
> In a world of magnets and miracles
> Our thoughts strayed constantly and without boundary
> The ringing of the division bell had begun
>
> Along the Long Road and on down the Causeway
> Do they still meet there by the Cut
>
> There was a ragged band that followed in our footsteps
> Running before times took our dreams away
> Leaving the myriad small creatures trying to tie us to the ground
> To a life consumed by slow decay
>
> The grass was greener
> The light was brighter
> When friends surrounded
> The nights of wonder
>
> Looking beyond the embers of bridges glowing behind us
> To a glimpse of how green it was on the other side
> Steps taken forwards but sleepwalking back again
> Dragged by the force of some inner tide
> At a higher altitude with flag unfurled
> We reached the dizzy heights of that dreamed of world
>
> Encumbered forever by desire and ambition
> There's a hunger still unsatisfied
> Our weary eyes still stray to the horizon
> Though down this road we've been so many times
>
> The grass was greener
> The light was brighter
> The taste was sweeter
> The nights of wonder
> With friends surrounded
> The dawn mist glowing
> The water flowing
> The endless river
> 
> Forever and ever


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