On Sun, Nov 19, 2006 at 01:33:13PM +1100, Colin Geoffrey Hales wrote: > > <snip> > > Since it makes no difference in any observable respect whether we are > living in a computer simulation running on a bare substrate, as one that > is incidently computated as part of a universal dovetailer, or an > infinite chain of dovetailers, we really can make use of Laplace's ripost > to Napoleon "Sire, I have no need of that hypothesis" with > respect to a concrete computer running our world. > <snip> > > Sorry Russel, I disagree with this claim. > > To say that the universe is computation does not imply any old substitute > computed abstraction will be identical in all respects. > > In particular there is a blizzard of virtual theorems made available > because of the intrinsic parallelism of 'reality as computation'. These > are NOT explictly computed. Abstract it and all the virtual > theorems/computations are gone. > > To see a computational equivalent check out ANY cellular automaton. There > is a perfectly computational but uncomputed relationship between any cell > and _all_ other cells (NOT just the local cells explicit to the rule set > used). Yet the only thing that was actually computed was the cell contents > using local cells incorporated in the cell rules. The universe is > equivalent. It is computation and can be regarded/treated as a massively > parallel CA. All the virtual theorems (computations) actually exist. > > So: Computationalism is the statement that "I am a computation". > > .... is correct in that the universe is computation, but incorrect in that > an abstraction on a substrate will replicate everything - is cannot/does > not replicate the virtual theorems. SO.....I have shown you a _physical_ > but virtual computation that is NOT replicated by the UDA abstraction. > This makes your original assertion incorrect.
I have never heard of your "virtual theorems" before, but assuming they're analogous to the implied computations that occur in your CA example, the difference would be the other way around. A UD will actually compute all these implied computations, whereas they are only virtual with respect to a direct computation. So you could make a statement that the difference between living in a direct computation and living in a UD is that in the direct computation there isn't this "blizzard of virtual theorems". But there is another difference, as pointed out by Bruno - in a UD, first person histories are non-deterministic. The point has been well argued in this list as to whether this is significant or not (I for one happen to think it is significant). Finally, there is a problem that UDs are far simpler programs than the one implementing our universe, so assuming they exist (which they do by virtue of computationalism), we are far more likely to find ourselves in a UD than in a simple direct computation. > > The story is bigger than this in that I hold the virtual theorems to be > the substrate for subjective experience....but my claims in this regard do Interesting claim. And if what I stated above holds, it meshes quite nicely with the view that counterfactuals are essential for conscious experience. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- A/Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) Mathematics UNSW SYDNEY 2052 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Australia http://www.hpcoders.com.au ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---