Bruno Marchal wrote:
> Very important post, Peter. We are progressing.
> 
> 
> On 06 Aug 2009, at 19:09, 1Z wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> On 31 July, 18:55, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>>> On 31 Jul 2009, at 18:05, 1Z wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> If it isn;t RITSIAR, it cannot be generating me. Mathematical
>>>> proofs only prove mathematical "existence", not onltolgical
>>>> existence. For a non-Platonist , 23 "exists" mathematically,
>>>> but is not RITSIAR. The same goes for the UD
>>> Is an atom RITSIAR? Is a quark RITSIAR?
>> If current physics is correct.
> 
> 
> Then it is not "RITSIAR" in the sense of the discussion with David.
> Real in the sense that "I" am real. is ambiguous.
> Either the "I" refers to my first person, and then I have ontological  
> certainty.
> As I said on FOR, I can conceive that I wake up and realize that  
> quark, planet, galaxies and even my body were not real. I cannot  
> conceive that I wake up and realize that my consciousness is not real.

But as Bertrand Russell, David Hume and many mystics have pointed out you can 
wake up and 
realize there is consciousness but the "I" that possesses it is a fiction.

Brent

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