benjayk wrote: > Rex Allen wrote: > >>> Where could the explanation begin? >>> >> I'd say there is no explanation. It just is what it is. As Brent >> said...it's descriptions all the way down. >> > I wouldn't neccesarily disagree, though only if you mean verbal or formal > explanation. In a sense our life and our experiences are explanations of > something, don't you think so? > > It is true though, that our lifes (all the content of conciousness and the > way it evolves) itself then can have no complete explanation. So what life > "wants" to explain then? > I think it seeks to explain that it *needs* no explanation beyond itself, > because it is good and nobody *absolutely* needs an explanation for what is > good. If it is good enough, you will except it without explanation - because > this is the ultimate explanation. > > Who could ever disagree with "The world is perfect, it is just here to > experience ever increasing joy and learn something exciting about > ourselves?" when it really comes down to it? So how could it be a wrong > explanation for anyone? > I see no way. >
Well if you were dying of AIDS, your husband had his hands hacked off by militias, and your child was starving to death you might see a way. > Though I certainly see it as "too good to be true" sometimes, but maybe it's > just part of the game? It's the subgame "what is good is likely too be true, > too - there is nothing akward about this even intellectually!". > > > Rex Allen wrote: > >>> have you some doubt about the validity of the UDA? Let me know, to see >>> what needs to be still clarified. >>> >> My only doubt about UDA is that it seems to make the same assumption >> as physicalism...that consciousness can't be fundamental. That >> something else must underlie it, and "cause" it. >> >> But if numbers can "just exist", and matter can "just exist", then why >> can't conscious experiences "just exist"? >> > > I agree here. But I would add that conciousness can conceivably make > independent sense for me, while numbers or matter can't. > > For me numbers don't make independent sense of the appearance (!) of matter, > too. Since I cannot conceive of any meaning of the number 2 without > reffering to some "real" (in the sense of every day usage) object. > But can you conceive of a meaning for 10930702499? > So I find it unconvincing that conciousness "arises" out of numbers, since > it is inconceivable for me what numbers mean independent of me or even the > world I perceive. > I think everything becomes much clearer if we postulate "arithmetical truth" > is simply "the" truth, and so in effect numbers are just reflections of > parts of this unnameable and untouchable truth (which comes "before" > numbers), which may be conciousness together with its infinitely infinitely > ... ... infinite possible content. > So numbers don't give rise to arithmetical truth, but truth gives rise to > (expresses as) numbers. Though ulitmately this may be a matter of > perspective ;)... It's just that the second perspective is more meaningful > to me. > > > Rex Allen wrote: > >> But, again, there seems to be no way to know for certain what *really* >> exists, a la Kant. >> > Maybe "what really exists" is not a meaningful thing to ask in first place, > because if something "really" exists, it certainly cannot be expressed with > words. So why aks a question that can't be answered with words at all? > But we can ask for true descriptions about it. Isn't it true that you are reading a computer screen? Of course we can't be sure about this, but we don't have to give up betting on it. > Probably we generally should take words less serious (especially with > regards to fundamental questions) and expect no satisfying answers from > them. > What do you propose - that we remain silent as mystics? Or do think mathematical words are different and we should take "2" and "successor" more seriously than "chair" and "dog"? Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-l...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
