2010/3/15 Stephen P. King <stephe...@charter.net> > Hi Stathis and Friends, > > I respectfully invite you to re-read my comment. > > > That a "need" becomes a right by convention or treaty or > > any means that enforce such is to effect the legitimation of coercion > > of the rights of those that can provide those "needs". "From each > > according to their ability to each according to his need" scream out > > at us here and without a coherent response we are witnessing the > > virtual imprisonment of any and all that might have the skills required > to > provide such. > > > > What I see here is by accepting the premise of this and > > similar arguments requires that a government has the "right" to demand > > services from individuals with ability *for whatever reason* which > > then is to accept that the State has the right to control the behavior > > of any individual and that any right of self-determination is abrogated. > > > I stated an argument for the purpose of soliciting comments and > counter-arguments not to make a "moral" claim. In fact, I thought that my > argument was an attempt to counter the "moral" claim in the article by > pointing out the logical (to me at least) implications of the claim: >
You are talking about *life* and **death**. If you don't see the *moral* thing in your selfish babling it's *bad*. > > "> Question: Is Universal Health Care a Human Right? > > > > Answer: According to the most widely accepted international human > > rights treaties, yes." > > My primary motivation for posting this was to extend the previous > discussion of the efficiency of Market vs. Managed systems in economics and > I assume, perhaps naively, that all of our members are interested in an > objective exploration of logical arguments within the context of the > Everything-List. > If the totality of Existence is "logical" or "Computational" or > both, then it seems to me that there should be no counter-example for such > within our sphere of experience and that if we find what appears to be such > a contradiction we should consider that a) there is a misunderstanding > somewhere that leads to the counter-example or b) that there is a flaw in > our premise somewhere or c) some combination of a) and b). > > It should not matter what the particular "need" is. The same > reasoning can be applied to Housing, Transportation, Food, Entertainment, > etc. So long as some notion of "need" can be presented and accepted by some > portion of society that has the ability to implicitly or explicitly use > coercion to motivate the fulfillment of this need. I am trying to get a > discussion of the consequences of this entire line of reasoning without > having to get into the subjective notion of "morals". > > Onward! > > Stephen P. King > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: email@example.com > [mailto:everything-l...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Stathis Papaioannou > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 9:32 AM > To: firstname.lastname@example.org > Subject: Re: Health Care as a Human Right - Is Universal Health Care a > Human > Right? > > Snip > > The problem is that "right" has no objective basis. It's like "good" > or "beauty": a concept made up by humans. You obviously think that public > health care is morally wrong while others (probably most people in the > world) think that the lack of public health care is morally wrong. You > could > have a rational discussion about, say, the efficiency of public versus > private health care, but with the core moral issue you will reach an > impasse, because your premises differ. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-l...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-l...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.