Dear Bruno and Evgenii, -----Original Message----- From: Bruno Marchal Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 11:50 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: comp and Maxwell demon

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You can simulate it. But you cannot program it. It uses a huge amount of information that it is hard to extract from the environment. I would say. In a larger sense, in which we are ourself Maxwell demon, you can filter it from long computation. They will transform selective information into energy. they will economize. The Universal Dovetailer does generate all possible Maxwell daemons, but I guess they are typically distributed sparsely in the set of all computations. Quantum Maxwell demon? That might explains the origin of life, but that might be a too cheap explanation. I should revised quantum information theory, but I have already hardly the time to do the real thing, which is to extract the quantum information from classical information + self-duplication and other self-perturbation (or to convince others to do the work, or that such a work has to be done to get both the qualia and the quanta). Interesting but hard question. Bruno On 15 Jan 2011, at 18:22, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: > I am trying to understand what the hypothesis comp is about. It > would be interesting to understand whether the Maxwell demon could > be simulated or not. Any idea? > > Evgenii Pardon my interjection. How exactly does it make sense to say that we "transform selective information into energy"? If information is just a form of energy, such that that phasing can make sense, does it not follow that there should be a unique relationship between the forms of matter that can implement a given information structure and a given material structure? From what I can tell there exists multiple ways that one and the same information can be implemented in matter. It is also true that multiple different information structures can represent one and the same material system. This implies two distinct and irreducible categories: a category of information structures and a category of material structures. There is also a relationship between these two categories, but that relation is not an identity mapping in the usual sense because it is almost always not a bijection. Because of this line of reasoning I am having a hard time understanding how it is that we can make statements like "transforming information into energy" and think that those kind of statements are sound. OTOH, it make sense to me that we can make claims like: "we can use information about material systems to induce changes within them that optimize their energy distributions" and so forth. We can maintain our belief in comp and UD as they apply to information and its structures, such as Boolean and Heyting algebras, but still consider that there has to be some form of material implementation possible at least in principle for it, otherwise we are stuck with the conclusion that the physical world is just a causally ineffective epiphenomena and with no explanation as to why we necessarily experience it. All forms of monism have this problem. If the distribution of Maxwell daemons is spare in its distribution over the set of possible computations, does this not imply that the chances of finding oneself as a Maxwell Daemon to be identically sparse. If the set of computations is infinite this make the chance of finding oneself as a MD to be vanishingly small, 1/inf. Does this not seem to indicate against the necessity of ever experiencing oneself as a MD in the first place? If we go further and notice that we seem to experience a relatively long chain of experiences that are MD in nature, does this not make it even more miraculous given derivation of the statistics of distributions of MD in the ensemble of possible computations? What if there is a mechanism that allows for the biasing of those statistics such that it is no longer a miracle that we are not just spontaneous Boltzmann Brains. The observer selection ideas of Bostrum seem to give us some good clues about this mechanism. Could it be that a feedback type of relationship might be involved? The choice of what form the material structure takes as it evolves in time could be used to select the information representation that best describes it, but this requires a categorical difference between matter and information such that we cannot think of them as just being transformable into each other. Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.