# Re: Maudlin & How many times does COMP have to be false before its false?

```On 2/13/2011 11:24 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
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On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 12:52 AM, Brent Meeker <meeke...@dslextreme.com <mailto:meeke...@dslextreme.com>> wrote:
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On 2/13/2011 10:13 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
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On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Brent Meeker
<meeke...@dslextreme.com <mailto:meeke...@dslextreme.com>> wrote:

On 2/13/2011 5:21 AM, 1Z wrote:

On Feb 12, 3:18 am, Brent Meeker<meeke...@dslextreme.com
<mailto:meeke...@dslextreme.com>>  wrote:

What do you think the chances are that
any random object in
Plato's heaven, or any random Turing
machine will support intelligent life?
1 in 10, 1 in 1000, 1 in a billion?

Zero.

Does that allow us to argue:

1) A universe selected from an uncountably infinite number of
possibilities has measure
0
2) Our universe exists so it has measure>0
3) Our universe is not selected from uncountably infinite
possibilities
4) MUH indicates any universe must be selected from
uncountable
infinite possibilities (since all
of maths includes the real line, etc)
5) MUH is false.

Hmmm.  I think we argue that objects in Plato's heaven and
Turing machines are not the right kind of things to support life.

I am very puzzled by this statement.  You could help me
understand by answering the following questions:

Why couldn't there be an accurate simulation of life on a Turing
machine?
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Because a Turing machine is an abstraction.  If you mean a
realization of a Turing machine, then I suppose there could be a
simulation of life on it.

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How can entities within a universe that exists in Plato's heaven
distinguish it from a universe that does not?
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I doubt that Plato's heaven exists.  So no universes would exist
in it.

Brent

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Exists is a funny word. It seems to embody knowledge and opinion from one observer's viewpoint based on their own limited experiences and interactions within their local portion of reality.
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Indeed.  I'm not sure it's unqualified use is meaningful.

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If Plato's heaven is such a thing that contains all possible structures, does the fact that it contains all possible structures hold true whether or not it exists?
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All possible brick structures? Please explain as precisely as possible what Platonia is.
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If there are universes existing abstractly inside Plato's heaven, and some of those universes contain conscious observers, does ascribing the property of non-existence to Plato's heaven or to those universes make those observers not conscious, or is the abstraction enough?
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What does "abstractly existing" mean.? How is it different from just exsiting?
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```What properties can something which is non-existent have?

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It seems there are two choices: 1. Things which are non-existent can have other properties besides non-existence.
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Sure. Sherlock Holmes is non-existent and has the property of being a detective.
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E.g., a non-existent universe has atoms, stars, worlds, and people on some of those worlds. Or 2. Non-existent things cannot have any other properties besides non-existence. It sounds like you belong to this second camp.
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However, this seems to lead immediately to mathematical realism. As there are objects with definite objectively explorable properties in math. 7's primality and parity are properties of 7. But how can 7 have properties if it does not exist? If non-existent things can have properties, why can't consciousness be one of those properties? What is the difference between a non-existent brain experiencing a sunset and an existent brain experiencing a sunset?
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Only one of them exists.

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Please explain as precisely as possible what it means for something to not exist.
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If I can kick it and it kicks back it exists.

Brent

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Jason

No facts about it if it is non existent?
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