On Jan 19, 12:37 am, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 1/18/2012 11:13 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
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> > On 18.01.2012 18:47 John Clark said the following:
> >> On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi<use...@rudnyi.ru>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> " Some physicists say that information is related to the entropy"
>
> >> That is incorrect, ALL physicists say that information is related to
> >> entropy. There are quite a number of definitions of entropy, one I
> >> like, although not as rigorous as some it does convey the basic idea:
> >> entropy is a measure of the number of ways the microscopic structure
> >> of something can be changed without changing the macroscopic
> >> properties. Thus, the living human body has very low entropy because
> >> there are relatively few changes that could be made in it without a
> >> drastic change in macroscopic properties, like being dead; a bucket
> >> of water has a much higher entropy because there are lots of ways you
> >> could change the microscopic position of all those water molecules
> >> and it would still look like a bucket of water; cool the water and
> >> form ice and you have less entropy because the molecules line up into
> >> a orderly lattice so there are fewer changes you could make. The
> >> ultimate in high entropy objects is a Black Hole because whatever is
> >> inside one on the outside any Black Hole can be completely described
> >> with just 3 numbers, its mass, spin and electrical charge.
>
> >> John K Clark
>
> > If you look around you may still find species of scientists who still are 
> > working with
> > classical thermodynamics (search for example for CALPHAD). Well, if you 
> > refer to them as
> > physicists or not, it is your choice. Anyway in experimental thermodynamics 
> > people
> > determine entropies, for example from CODATA tables
>
> >http://www.codata.org/resources/databases/key1.html
>
> > S ° (298.15 K)
> > J K-1 mol-1
>
> > Ag  cr  42.55 ą 0.20
> > Al  cr  28.30 ą 0.10
>
> > Do you mean that 1 mole of Ag has more information than 1 mole of Al at 
> > 298.15 K?
>
> Yes, it has more internal degrees of freedom so that it takes addition of 
> more energy in
> order to increase those we measure as temperature.

This suggests to me that a molecule of DNA belonging to a kangaroo
could have no more information than the same molecule with the primary
sequence scrambled into randomness or 'blanked out' with a single
repeating A-T base pair. That would seem to make this definition of
information the exact opposite of the colloquial meaning of the term.
A blank hard drive could have more information as one full of billions
of documents if the platters were at a different temperatures?

Craig

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