On 06 Feb 2012, at 20:42, meekerdb wrote:

On 2/6/2012 9:03 AM, 1Z wrote:

 There is also a "conservation" of information.  It is
> apparently industrictable.
Is there? if there is , it is a phsycial law, and AFAIK it is hotly
debated.


It's the same as the question of wave-function collapse. QM without collapse is time-reversible and so conserves information. With collapse it doesn't. But even without collapse information may become unavailable to us due to statistical diffusion into the environment or crossing and event horizon.


That's why if QM (without collapse) is 100% correct, black hole must reversibly evaporate. Amazingly the presence of (p <-> [] <> p) in the material hypostases could explain why the core of the apparently primitive physics has to be given by a group or a very symmetrical group like object. It might be related to the modular form in the general math of the diophantine equation (like in Fermat theorem). In term of Smullyan singing birds (= combinators), there are no Kestrels (eliminators), nor Starlings (duplicators) in the core physical forest.

Kestrel = K. Their law is Kxy = x
Starling = S. Their law is Sxyz = xz(yz)

Then, if that is confirmed, we have the nice feature that the breaking of symmetries is only due to first person indeterminacy and the laws of big numbers. Note that such a core physics would not been Turing complete. Forest (system of combinators) without both K and S (or equivalent eliminators and duplicators) cannot be Turing universal, although K can be simulated in some local way.



Brent

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