On 06 Feb 2012, at 20:42, meekerdb wrote:

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On 2/6/2012 9:03 AM, 1Z wrote:There is also a "conservation" of information. It is > apparently industrictable.Is there? if there is , it is a phsycial law, and AFAIK it is hotly debated.It's the same as the question of wave-function collapse. QM withoutcollapse is time-reversible and so conserves information. Withcollapse it doesn't. But even without collapse information maybecome unavailable to us due to statistical diffusion into theenvironment or crossing and event horizon.

`That's why if QM (without collapse) is 100% correct, black hole must`

`reversibly evaporate.`

`Amazingly the presence of (p <-> [] <> p) in the material hypostases`

`could explain why the core of the apparently primitive physics has to`

`be given by a group or a very symmetrical group like object.`

`It might be related to the modular form in the general math of the`

`diophantine equation (like in Fermat theorem).`

`In term of Smullyan singing birds (= combinators), there are no`

`Kestrels (eliminators), nor Starlings (duplicators) in the core`

`physical forest.`

Kestrel = K. Their law is Kxy = x Starling = S. Their law is Sxyz = xz(yz)

`Then, if that is confirmed, we have the nice feature that the breaking`

`of symmetries is only due to first person indeterminacy and the laws`

`of big numbers.`

`Note that such a core physics would not been Turing complete. Forest`

`(system of combinators) without both K and S (or equivalent`

`eliminators and duplicators) cannot be Turing universal, although K`

`can be simulated in some local way.`

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