On 13 Feb 2012, at 16:26, Stephen P. King wrote:

On 2/13/2012 9:44 AM, Stephen P. King wrote:

On 2/13/2012 9:16 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote:

RDR: Not sure if this is helpful, but a possible hypothetical communications model is the 3D 10^90 per cc set Calabi-Yau Compact Manifolds of string theory that are purported to control all physical interactions as they each contain the laws of physics; and collectively they may manifest consciousness as well as perhaps Platonia and "cyclic gossiping" as their variable properties across the universe may manifest a Peano arithmetic. Regarding communication each spherical element/manifold instantly maps all the other manifolds and all physical phenomena to its interior. http://vixra.org/abs/1101.0044

Hi Richard,

I am highly skeptical of string theory because of its Landscape problem, the lack of observational evidence of super-partner particles, the fact that it is not back-ground independent and its underlying philosophical assumptions. All that aside, I will take a look at the referenced paper.


Hi Richard,

    I like your paper! I would like to point out something. You quoted

(1) Assume my reasoning powers are captured by some formal system F (to put this more briefly, "I am F"). Consider the class of statements I can know to be true, given this assumption.
(2) Given that I know that I am F,

No machine can know which machine she is.

I know that F is sound (as I know that I am sound).

No sound machine can know that she is sound.

Indeed, I know that
the larger system F' is sound, where F' is F supplemented by the further assumption "I am F". (Supplementing a sound system with a true statement yields a sound system.)

PA is sound and consistent. But PA + "I am sound", with I = "PA + "I am sound" (the circularity apparent here can be removded with the "DD" trick or the recursion theorem of Kleene) is unsound.

(3) So I know that G(F') is true, where this is the Gödel sentence of the system F'.
(4) But F' could not see that G(F') is true (by Gödel's theorem).
(5) By assumption, however, I am now effectively equivalent to F'. After all, I am F supplemented by the
knowledge that I am F.
(6) This is a contradiction, so the initial assumption must be false, and F must not have captured my
powers of reasoning after all.
(7) The conclusion generalizes: my reasoning powers cannot be captured by any formal system.

This is basically the Lucas-Penrose error. It confuses Bp & p with Bp.
Bp -> p is true for sound machine (obviously) but is not provable by any sound machine.


This reminds me of problematic sentences in logic such as "Stephen cannot know the truth value of this sentence". While I can only inconsistently speculated on the truth value of that sentence, you, not being Stephen, can consistently determine its truth value. I see this as arguing that truth values are quantities that are strictly local and not global. Since I am a HUGE fan of Leibniz, I like the Monad-like quality that you are considering with the concept of a CYCM, but wonder if the particular geometric properties are being arbitrarily selected. It seems to me that any monadic construction will do so long as it can support a self-referential logic, such as Peano Arithmetic. Additionally, how do we deal with the apparently bosonic property of minds given the very fermionic property of matter. Could supersymmetry really be a theory of the mind-body problem? Some people, like Matti Pitkanen, think so and I sympathize with this view. But it still seems to assume too much. Maybe this is just the price of a theory. ;-)



You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en .


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
For more options, visit this group at 

Reply via email to