On 13 Feb 2012, at 16:26, Stephen P. King wrote:

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On 2/13/2012 9:44 AM, Stephen P. King wrote:On 2/13/2012 9:16 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote:RDR: Not sure if this is helpful, but a possible hypotheticalcommunications model is the 3D 10^90 per cc set Calabi-Yau CompactManifolds of string theory that are purported to control allphysical interactions as they each contain the laws of physics;and collectively they may manifest consciousness as well asperhaps Platonia and "cyclic gossiping" as their variableproperties across the universe may manifest a Peano arithmetic.Regarding communication each spherical element/manifold instantlymaps all the other manifolds and all physical phenomena to itsinterior. http://vixra.org/abs/1101.0044--Hi Richard,I am highly skeptical of string theory because of its Landscapeproblem, the lack of observational evidence of super-partnerparticles, the fact that it is not back-ground independent and itsunderlying philosophical assumptions. All that aside, I will take alook at the referenced paper.Onward! StephenHi Richard, I like your paper! I would like to point out something. You quoted [Chalmers(1995)]:(1) Assume my reasoning powers are captured by some formal system F(to put this more briefly, "I amF"). Consider the class of statements I can know to be true, giventhis assumption.(2) Given that I know that I am F,

No machine can know which machine she is.

I know that F is sound (as I know that I am sound).

No sound machine can know that she is sound.

Indeed, I know thatthe larger system F' is sound, where F' is F supplemented by thefurther assumption "I am F".(Supplementing a sound system with a true statement yields a soundsystem.)

`PA is sound and consistent. But PA + "I am sound", with I = "PA + "I`

`am sound" (the circularity apparent here can be removded with the "DD"`

`trick or the recursion theorem of Kleene) is unsound.`

(3) So I know that G(F') is true, where this is the Gödel sentenceof the system F'.(4) But F' could not see that G(F') is true (by Gödel's theorem).(5) By assumption, however, I am now effectively equivalent to F'.After all, I am F supplemented by theknowledge that I am F.(6) This is a contradiction, so the initial assumption must befalse, and F must not have captured mypowers of reasoning after all.(7) The conclusion generalizes: my reasoning powers cannot becaptured by any formal system.

This is basically the Lucas-Penrose error. It confuses Bp & p with Bp.

`Bp -> p is true for sound machine (obviously) but is not provable by`

`any sound machine.`

Bruno

This reminds me of problematic sentences in logic such as"Stephen cannot know the truth value of this sentence". While I canonly inconsistently speculated on the truth value of that sentence,you, not being Stephen, can consistently determine its truth value.I see this as arguing that truth values are quantities that arestrictly local and not global.Since I am a HUGE fan of Leibniz, I like the Monad-like qualitythat you are considering with the concept of a CYCM, but wonder ifthe particular geometric properties are being arbitrarily selected.It seems to me that any monadic construction will do so long as itcan support a self-referential logic, such as Peano Arithmetic.Additionally, how do we deal with the apparently bosonic property ofminds given the very fermionic property of matter. Couldsupersymmetry really be a theory of the mind-body problem? Somepeople, like Matti Pitkanen, think so and I sympathize with thisview. But it still seems to assume too much. Maybe this is just theprice of a theory. ;-)Onward! Stephen --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.