On May 6, 10:17 pm, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 5/6/2012 5:47 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
>
> > On May 6, 4:06 pm, meekerdb<meeke...@verizon.net>  wrote:
>
> >> Newton, Boyle, Tyndall, Descarte, Laplace,
> >> Kepler,...none of them were from the universities, which were dominated by 
> >> theology.
> > All of them were still theological thinkers though,
>
> Theological in that the concerned themselves with fundamentals and god 
> (although Laplace
> famously said he had no need of that hypothesis),

from the Wiki:

"Pierre Simon Laplace attended a school in the village run at a
Benedictine priory, his father intending that he would be ordained in
the Roman Catholic Church, and at sixteen he was sent to further his
father's intention at the University of Caen, reading theology.

At the university, he was mentored by two enthusiastic teachers of
mathematics, Christophe Gadbled and Pierre Le Canu, who awoke his zeal
for the subject. Laplace did not graduate in theology but left for
Paris with a letter of introduction from Le Canu to Jean le Rond
d'Alembert."

This illustrates the point I'm trying to make, that scientific
empiricism is an offshoot of theology/gnosticism/philosophy/mysticism/
shamanism - the first offshoot which explores subjectivity indirectly;
through its antithesis. Science represents a mechanization of
philosophy. Enlightenment does not seem to ever occur atavistically,
but rather always as an evolution through and refinement of spiritual-
philosophical principles.

> but all unconventional.  Descarte was on
> the index of prohibited books until the index was abandoned in 1962.  Newton 
> was an Aryan
> heretic.

The Rosicrucians claim Descartes and Newton, (along with da Vinci,
Bacon, Pascal, Spinoza, Leibniz, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson,
and Faraday). All may have been deemed heretical to some extent for
threatening church authority, but all of them had minds which were
deeply theological and philosophical.

>
> > as were Bacon,
> > Copernicus, Paracelsus, the Islamic alchemists, etc. If anything, they
> > were more personally committed to theology than the political
> > bureaucracies that had been built up through the church.
>
> >> There are Christian parties, Zionist parties, and Muslim parties and Tea 
> >> parties, but
> >> there is no science party.  So it's pretty clear who is interested in 
> >> power and who in
> >> knowledge.
> > I wouldn't say that science is apolitical. Just as the church has
> > traditionally served as a cheerleader for war, academic science now
> > typically serves to advocate the agendas of the military industrial
> > complex and big business. Scientific authority is a political
> > instrument precisely because it is assumed to be apolitical, just as
> > theological authority was supposed to be.
>
> Theological authority was apolitical while it taught the divine right of 
> kings and
> performed coronations - you've gotta be kidding.  Next you'll claim musical 
> criticism is
> political because it's assumed to be apolitical.

Of course musical criticism is political. A negative review from a
prominent critic is supposed to have consequences for the career of
the musician. Same for restaurant critics, film critics, etc. Part of
being a successful critic is being courted by those who seek favorable
reviews, and all of them struggle with how much of their integrity is
worth to them. Science, as the modern anti-religion, sanctifies
political and commercial powers with strategic studies that produce
the desired statistics for long enough to secure funding, grants,
revolving-door appointments, promotions, etc. Science supplies
egalitarian rhetoric and intellectual validation with one face, while
it weaponizes technologies and serves authoritarian agendas with the
other.

It's a huge improvement over Crusades and Inquisitions, to be sure. At
least it seems like that from my perspective since I don't have to
work in an iPad factory in China. I don't think that it's any less
political though.

Craig

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