On May 7, 3:44 pm, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 5/7/2012 12:04 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
> > On May 7, 1:25 pm, meekerdb<meeke...@verizon.net>  wrote:
> >> The 'laws' of logic are just the rules of language that ensure we don't 
> >> issue
> >> contradictory statements.
> > You have to have logic to begin with to conceive of the desirability
> > of avoiding contradiction. Something has to put the 'contra' into our
> > 'diction'.
> No, you only need to understand negation, to have a language with the word 
> 'not'.  Then if
> someone says to you "X" and "not-X" you immediately realize the need to avoid
> contradiction, because a contradiction fails to express anything.

"You immediately realize" = logic. A baby doesn't immediately realize
that there is a need to avoid contradiction, even though they may
understand bottle and not-bottle. An insane person or just irrational
person may not care about avoiding contradiction even though they
understand negation. Any anticipation of an outcome which results in a
modification of one's intention is a form of logic. If I avoid
something for a reason, I am using logic.

> >   The 'laws' of quantum mechanics also follow from simple
> >> assumptions about the world having symmetries (c.f. Russell Standish's 
> >> "Theory of Nothing"
> >> and Vic Stenger's "The Comprehensible Cosmos") and having a symmetry is a 
> >> kind of
> >> 'nothing', i.e. having no distinguishing characteristic under some 
> >> transformation.
> > Invariance is one aspect of symmetry,
> It's an essential aspect. A symmetry is a property that is invariant under 
> some
> transformation.

All properties are invariant under some transformation, that's what
makes them a property. Symmetry is a very specific sense of combined
variance, invariance, but most of all a sense of conjugation by

> > but you cannot reduce symmetry
> > to being a 'kind of nothing'. Symmetry cannot be anything less than a
> > feature of sense.
> I can if I explicitly say what kind it is - which I did.

Your reduction reduces symmetry to be no different from asymmetry.
Asymmetry is invariant under some transformation also. You have only
made the word symmetry meaningless.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
For more options, visit this group at 

Reply via email to